-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
UNRWA fires 12 workers over suspected involvement in the October 7 attacks on Israel
- Thread starter Shaul
- Start date
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's not genocide, because the people are in the majoriity being sent and directed to safety. They are being fed. They are receiving water. Contrary to the stories which are being told, field hospitals have been established and maintained to replace the Hamas run refuges which serve double duty as "hospitals". These field hospitals were in place prior to teh ICJ heariinngs. But the meedia which iis being consumed by the anti-isreal propagandists never report it. And for those who are obsessed with body counts, it's not genocide when the body count is 30,000/2,000,000.
And this ignores that the numbers are coming from the enemy and all those who are killed are always magically imagined to be innocent.
It's true what I wrote. The best that can be said is there is potential for a genocide, but, israel does not need to change any of its operations. It simply needs to increase reporting to satisfy the international court of justice.
It cannot be genocide because israel is providing for those whom they are accused of exterminating. The enemies of israel and the UNRWA benefit from keeping the Palestinians pitiful so that they can attack israel's military aid coming from western countries.
libre
Skylark
He does not believe there is a genocide going on right now, but you are correct to call out the victim blaming rhetoric here.
He previously stated 'the Palestinian's ethnically cleansed... themselves' in 1948.
Israel’s war crimes in Gaza are by design, not default
Exactly. Which begs the question of how Israel can justify such similar behavior. It's not, but your remark says a lot.
www.religiousforums.com
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The Palestinians and their allies victim blame israel. It's happened on this forum. The Palestinians attack, and then they are isolated. They keep atacking and they are cut off from importing weapons. They continue attacking, and the israel continues to reduce their access to materials which can be used to improvise weapons. And this "oppression" is considereed a justification for the violence. Israel is the viticm of terrorism from the Palestinians for the past 100+ years. But the victim, israel, gets blamed.
Yes, their OWN propaganda backfired. And the Palestinians ethnically cleansed themselves. They fled from their own land because their own Palestinian leaders lied to them about the evil jews who were raping and pillaging. They cause their own Nakbah. They did it to themselves.
Some of them are victims. They're victims of the stories that Paestinians and their western allies broadcast. They're victims of UNRWA teaching the children it's their duty to die by the hand of Jews for a great heavenly reward.
Israel is overwhelmingly innocent. They are attacked again and again. They purchased land legally, but they are attacked. They offer peace in 1937 they're attacked. They offer peace again in 1948... attacked. The attacks have never stopped. There was a cease fire on Oct. 6th between Hamas and israel. Oct. 7th... again the Palestinians broke their peace deal.
No, there is no genocide. Yes, they ethnically cleansed themselves. It really doesn't matter what the friends of Hamas have to say about it. I've shown repeatedly on this forum the facts are on my side. The facts are on israel's side. The opinion of the internet evangelists are not important.
Nor do I. I see gross, if not criminal, indifference to collateral damage, but nothing akin to an intent to eliminate Palestinians as a people. On the other hand, Hamas is clearly guilty of a such an intent.
libre
Skylark
I don't fault him or you for that conclusion.
I do however believe that statements like 'the Palestinian's ethnically cleansed... themselves' are dangerous nonstarters, and I do see a similar pattern of rhetoric in this thread.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's a fact. They ARE victims... of their own propaganda. Their false narrative caused their own ethnic cleansing.
It's remarkable to me that the dangerous rhetoric of UNRWA seems to get a free pass, but historical fact is ignored and discouraged. That's what I'm seeing in this thread.
The Palestinian narrative is an entho-genesis fabricated for the purpose of Oan Arabian nationalism. It's best articulated by the PLO:
Zuheir Mohsen - Wikiquote
Their cultural identity is resistance to Israel. They will not stop until the false narrative of Israeli "theft" is deconstructed and debunked.
UNRWA is promoting this false story, but, includes the *dangerous* rhetoric directing / indoctrinating the children that they must sacrifice themselves rather than compromise.
Why are you not writing in opposition to UNRWA? They are the ones who are raising an army against Israel by spreading lies.
libre
Skylark
So you reject that Palestine is a nation?
One spokesman for As-Sa'iqa does not speak for the entire PLO. The viewpoint that 'The Palestinian people do not exist' is very obviously not the dominant perspective in the PLO, and alluding to this as though it was some sort of confession about the truth about Palestinian nationhood is backhanded and mystifying.
Last edited:
libre
Skylark
From my earlier post:
I do believe that many of your posts distort the former into the latter, which culminates in dangerous generalizations.
I can't see the idea that UNRWA is working to raise an army against Israel as anything more than a fanatical smear campaign.
So you assert that "ethnic cleansing" is an acceptable fact given the circumstances.
Nor can I. I can, however, see the idea that UNRWA personnel are so laced with Hamas operatives that it is:
- almost impossible to disentangle the two, and
- insane to view UNRWA as anything other than a likely threat.
We go round in helicopters
Like a bunch of big grasshoppers
Searching for the Viet Cong in vain
They left a note that they had gone
They had to get down to Saigon
Their government positions to maintain
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Part 1 of 2:
It's certainly not criminal. That's a baseless judgement. Literally baseless.
There's a search and rescue in progress in hostile territory. Your comment exposes extreme ignorance of what is required to locate and extract the hostages. I also expect you are vastly underestimating the sophistication and training of those who are in opposition to their safe recovery.
The hostages are being protected by soldiers trained and armed by Iran. They are targeting the search and rescue teams with mortar and rockets utilizing a fixed spotter and a fixed reference point. Knocking down those vantages and reference points to the uneducated critic looks like collateral damage. It's actually required for the safe operation of the search team. The so-called collateral damage is creating a safer space for the search team to advance and do their job.
www.globalsecurity.org
This is from a video recorded and posted online of an attack on an Israeli search team on 12/30. I'm traveling, using my phone to post this. Hopefully the pictures look OK on the device you're using.
Continued in the next post...
It's certainly not criminal. That's a baseless judgement. Literally baseless.
There's a search and rescue in progress in hostile territory. Your comment exposes extreme ignorance of what is required to locate and extract the hostages. I also expect you are vastly underestimating the sophistication and training of those who are in opposition to their safe recovery.
The hostages are being protected by soldiers trained and armed by Iran. They are targeting the search and rescue teams with mortar and rockets utilizing a fixed spotter and a fixed reference point. Knocking down those vantages and reference points to the uneducated critic looks like collateral damage. It's actually required for the safe operation of the search team. The so-called collateral damage is creating a safer space for the search team to advance and do their job.
FM 6-30 Chapter 4 Call For Fire
This is from a video recorded and posted online of an attack on an Israeli search team on 12/30. I'm traveling, using my phone to post this. Hopefully the pictures look OK on the device you're using.
Continued in the next post...
Last edited:
If you say so.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@Jayhawker Soule ,
In the same video, the targeting using fixed reference points is demonstrated. It also shows the model of the Iranian rockets being used. These are Iranian trained and supplied soldiers standing between the hostages and their safe return. Any and all possible advantages need to be exploited for the effective rescue of the hostages. These fighters should not be under estimated.
tigersupplies.com
The critical western, non-military, observer might look at what's happening in Gaza as criminal, but they clearly do not know what's involved in a rapid search and rescue of the hostages. If the hostages are returned, then, and only then, it makes sense to criticize excessive collateral damage. Until then, Israel is doing what it needs to do to rapidly move into Gaza and rescue the hostages
In the same video, the targeting using fixed reference points is demonstrated. It also shows the model of the Iranian rockets being used. These are Iranian trained and supplied soldiers standing between the hostages and their safe return. Any and all possible advantages need to be exploited for the effective rescue of the hostages. These fighters should not be under estimated.
196-2 TECH Digital Level
The Stabila 196-2 TECH Digital Level is a rugged and multi-functional measuring tool that offers accuracy and efficiency for a wide range of construction applications. Featuring an electronic measuring technology, it is excellent for accurately measuring angles and quickly setting slopes. Its...
The critical western, non-military, observer might look at what's happening in Gaza as criminal, but they clearly do not know what's involved in a rapid search and rescue of the hostages. If the hostages are returned, then, and only then, it makes sense to criticize excessive collateral damage. Until then, Israel is doing what it needs to do to rapidly move into Gaza and rescue the hostages
Last edited:
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Oh? That cuts both ways.
On what facts is this criminal allegation based? You say it's criminal, but, it's meaningless without facts to support it
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I'm saying the Palestinians were "cleansed" as a direct consequence of the false narrative told by the Palestinians to the Palestinians. There were also villages which were surrendered by the Palestinians in the armistice agreements of 1949. The Palestinians lied, stared a war, lost, then lied again and again to avoid teaching their children the humiliating truth of their own defeat.
There were a few villages which were taken by the Israelis because of the security implications of their continued possession by those who are committed to Israel's annihilation. But this is far from ethnic cleansing.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
No. They are, in past and present, a dangerous nation. Their ethnic identity, their enthno-genesis, is fabricated. It is a tactic for the purpose of Pan-Arabian nationalism. They have spoken their desire to annihilate the jewish nation. They have written it. They indoctrinate and sacrifice their children. They have made their intentions clear, and they have repeatedly acted on those violent desires as a nation.
Not all Palestinians are dangerous, but, the moderates are being systematically eliminated by the fanatics. Creating peace requires creating a safe space for the moderates, and also deconstructing the false history and suicidal amibitions which are being taught by UNRWA.
My point was not about Palestinain nationhood. The comment I was responding to was discouraging historical fact as "dangerous rhetoric". Here's your comment followed by my reply, excerpted:
The reason for brining a Palestinian to confirm the Pan-Arabian desire and the violent commitment to that pursuit should be obvious. If it's coming from a Palestinian, it is not israeli propaganda. Not only does the Palestinian narrative lie about stolen land, it also distorts the greed and obsession over a tiny fraction of land missing from their Pan-Arabian aspirations. By fabricating a Palestinian identity which is not Pan-Arabian, the western observer, ignorant of history, percieves the Israeli pursuit of its own very tiny nation as unfair, to put it lightly. But the truth is 99% of the land which was promised the Arabs was received. In order to seize the remaining 1%, the story needed to be changed so that the world forgets about the history of the region and how the territory was intended to be distributed fairly.
The Palestinian identity is nothing more than resitance to israel's existance in a land which they believe was promised entirely to the Arabs. Until the Palestinians openly negotiate directly with israel, acknowldging its right to exist in the region, there will never be peace. In this specific case, right now, they need to demonstrate they are not terrorists and return the hostages. That is the price of admission to any negotiations. Until then, they are terrorists, kidnappers, murders, who will be isolated, contained, and hunted.
Do you know where the Palestinian flag comes from? Originally it's the Pan-Arabian flag of 1919. This is the *actual* history of the Palestinian people. It's the story that is not told the to the sympathetic western audience, because, it exposes the the dominant, empirial, "might=right", conqueror mentality which pervades the Arabic culture. They do not compromise. There is no peaceful transfer of power. They seize it. If the west is triggered by the word "colonial", they certainly cannot be reminded of Arab empiralism if they are expected to remain sympathetic to their cause.
Prior to WW1 the Ottoman empire had fallen out of favor of the Arab elites. The Ottomans were too global, worldly, and modern. They permitted the Arab land and population to be poluted with foriegn immigrants and was believed to have become friendly with the Russian Czar. They percieved this as a betrayl to the Arab people and to *their* holy land. During WW1 there was an opportunity to oust the Ottomans. The Arab elites seized it. They raised a small army of capable fighters working in partnership with the British under the banner of the now very familiar "Palestinian" flag. But it wasn't for "Palestine" as it is understood today. They were fighting for control of ALL the land from Aleppo to Aden.
Please see the map below, and the flag that was used to rally the Arabs to their Pan-Arabian nationalist cause. This is the territory that the Arabs believed was promised to them in return for their participation in WW1.
Arab Revolt - Wikipedia
Simultaneously, the Jewish imigrants also raised a company of fighters to assist with the war effort in partnership with the British. It was, naturally, much smaller than the Arab legion, but they too fought valiantly and sacrificed. They were called the "Zion Mule Corps". They were promised a tiny splinter of the Arabian peninsula by the British. When the Arabs found out, it was perceived as yet another betrayl towards the Arabs who thought they were promised 100% of the land.
Jewish Legion - Wikipedia
The anti-israel story never-never begins at the beginning. It ignores the violence of the Arabs against the jewish immigrants which started almost immediately when land was legally purchased. It skips over the repeated peace offerings from the zionists towards their Arab neighbors. 99% of the land is aquired by the Arabs, but, by manufacturing a new ethnicity, "Palestinian", the map and the history gets artifically, fraudulently reduced. Western white guilt as a consequence of its own colonial roots and oppression of black and brown people, finds its expression/outlet lashing out at the isreali nation. The westen audience has taken the bait. The Arab propagandist smiles.
As it's written in the Hadith... War is deception.
Last edited:
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
That's probably because you are not aware of what they are teaching. The children are taught they MUST martyr themselves; it's their duty. This is coming from the UNRWA schools. You may choose not to believe me. I can understand that. However, my track record has shown I bring evidence and facts. I'll find the evidence of what UNRWA is teaching and report back. I know that it has been documented. I simply need to find a good source.
I was right about their involvement in Oct. 7th. There is evidence, even though it had been previously denied. I'm confident I am correct about this as well, and I can substantiate it even though this too is being denied.