Trusting the Bible

[jojom]

well, fortunately there are many people who can read hebrew and greek, and while we do rely on them to translate for us, we can be very confident that they are able to do so very accurately.

Yet we have what, at least 30-40 different versions of it. Which to pick? How to pick?

 

[psychoslice]

The sad thing about the bible is that it was all copied and pasted here and there, much of what could have been in the bible was burnt or hidden, for this reason anyone with an ounce of intelligence would not take the bible as literal, and I mean that, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[George-ananda]

I don't believe the Bible is all or nothing right or wrong. We have to use our intelligence.

 

[psychoslice]

I don't believe the Bible is all or nothing right or wrong. We have to use our intelligence.

Yes intelligence, but sadly that's very rare.

 

[Pegg]

Yet we have what, at least 30-40 different versions of it. Which to pick? How to pick?

having different versions is not the issue. Actually if anything, having different versions help us to get a good idea of the verse. Some translators put a phrase in such a way that it helps us really grasp the meaning.
So i dont mind different translators phrasing things slightly differently, I think its good.

And as an example, there are many ways of saying the same thing, ie lets take the following phrase:

In an old run down shack lives a man of short stature wearing a turbin ​

That can be translated a number of ways:

There is a rickety old shack where a short man wearing a turbin lives.
A short man wearing a turbin lives in a broken down old shack.
A man who is not very tall wears a turbin lives in a shack which is quite run down.​

Each sentence is a version of the original, they all say the same thing in a different way. This is the same way the bible has been translated by different people. They may word it differently, but they all convey the same meaning or idea.

​

 

[psychoslice]

having different versions is not the issue. Actually if anything, having different versions help us to get a good idea of the verse. Some translators put a phrase in such a way that it helps us really grasp the meaning.
So i dont mind different translators phrasing things slightly differently, I think its good.

And as an example, there are many ways of saying the same thing, ie lets take the following phrase:

In an old run down shack lives a man of short stature wearing a turbin ​

That can be translated a number of ways:

There is a rickety old shack where a short man wearing a turbin lives.
A short man wearing a turbin lives in a broken down old shack.
A man who is not very tall wears a turbin lives in a shack which is quite run down.​

Each sentence is a version of the original, they all say the same thing in a different way. This is the same way the bible has been translated by different people. They may word it differently, but they all convey the same meaning or idea.

​

But still you have your own version, the new world translation, which the JW's believe is the best version, yea give me a break.

 

[Pegg]

But still you have your own version, the new world translation, which the JW's believe is the best version, yea give me a break.

yeah well ya get that

 

[jojom]

having different versions is not the issue.

Sure it is. One Bible gives one impression and another Bible gives another impression. Which is right; did god create evil or did he just create sorrow? Hardly the same thing, yet each is claimed in the same chapter and verse.

Actually if anything, having different versions help us to get a good idea of the verse. Some translators put a phrase in such a way that it helps us really grasp the meaning.
So i dont mind different translators phrasing things slightly differently, I think its good.

And as an example, there are many ways of saying the same thing, ie lets take the following phrase:

In an old run down shack lives a man of short stature wearing a turbin ​

That can be translated a number of ways:

There is a rickety old shack where a short man wearing a turbin lives.
A short man wearing a turbin lives in a broken down old shack.
A man who is not very tall wears a turbin lives in a shack which is quite run down.​

Each sentence is a version of the original, they all say the same thing in a different way. This is the same way the bible has been translated by different people.

Not in Isaiah 45:7. (the evil v. sorrow difference) or in Proverbs 18:24

KJV
A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

NASB
A man of many friends comes to ruin, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.​

 

[psychoslice]

yeah well ya get that

My point is no version is real, or can be taken serious, its just silly to think you can have a version that is rock solid.

 

[Pegg]

Sure it is. One Bible gives one impression and another Bible gives another impression. Which is right; did god create evil or did he just create sorrow? Hardly the same thing, yet each is claimed in the same chapter and verse.

the word 'evil' is english. In the scriptures, the hebrew word is 'ra and it is a word used in various ways including “bad,” “gloomy,” “ugly,” “evil,” “calamitous,” “malignant,” “ungenerous,” and “envious,”
Any of the above words might be ok depending on the context.

God can bring evil upon someone, absolutely. It helps to understand the meaning of the words being used.

Not in Isaiah 45:7. (the evil v. sorrow difference) or in Proverbs 18:24

KJV
A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

NASB
A man of many friends comes to ruin, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.​

You are comparing 'old' middle ages english with our modern english here. Thats not a good thing to do because old english is different to our english.

This is why bibles are always being updated....our language changes over time. (besides, the KJV is a translation based on classical greek, not Koine greek)

 

[wizanda]

If there's any kind of inaccuracy then it makes it whole Bible suspect, doesn't it?

The whole Bible is suspect; contradictions between John, Paul Vs Yeshua, between King and Chronicles.... The book starts, the talking snake told the truth and god is a liar; it is a book you're meant to question, unfortunately many don't.

 

[jojom]

the word 'evil' is english.

So is the word "sorrow." What is your point?

In the scriptures, the hebrew word is 'ra and it is a word used in various ways including “bad,” “gloomy,” “ugly,” “evil,” “calamitous,” “malignant,” “ungenerous,” and “envious,”
Any of the above words might be ok depending on the context.

And in the verse they both occur the context is the same.

You are comparing 'old' middle ages english with our modern english here. Thats not a good thing to do because old english is different to our english.

This is why bibles are always being updated....our language changes over time. (besides, the KJV is a translation based on classical greek, not Koine greek)

Yet both Bibles are still in use today, in fact the KJV is the second best selling Bible in the USA.

"According to the CBA, whose rankings are based on sales at member Christian retail stores in the U.S. through Aug. 3, 2013, the top Bible translations are: (1) New International Version; (2) King James Version; (3) New King James Version; (4) English Standard Version; (5) New Living Translation; (6) Holman Christian Standard Bible; (7) New American Standard; (8) Common English Bible; (9) New International Readers Version; (10) Reina Valera 1960."
Top Bible Translations Remain NIV, KJV and NKJV

 

[psychoslice]

The whole Bible is suspect; contradictions between John, Paul Vs Yeshua, between King and Chronicles.... The book starts, the talking snake told the truth and god is a liar; it is a book you're meant to question, unfortunately many don't.

So true, its just like their little children with their fingers in their ears not wanting to know the truth.

 

[Neo Deist]

If the Bible is not 100% accurate in what it says, then how can you trust it at all? If small, insignificant verse #6 is wrong, then how can you put your faith in the belief that immensely important verse #22 is right? So isn't inerrancy mandatory?

The Bible is not All or Nothing.

 

[psychoslice]

The Bible is not All or Nothing.

it has to be one or the other ?.

 

[Neo Deist]

it has to be one or the other ?.

According to some.

 

[psychoslice]

According to some.

Yea I suppose, but to me its all nothing, a wast of time to most, after all not many can get it.

 

[Pegg]

So is the word "sorrow." What is your point?

the point is that the original word is 'ra, that is the word being translated. Ra has various meanings. And the way we generally undestand 'evil' is not necessarily conveying the same idea.

Yet both Bibles are still in use today, in fact the KJV is the second best selling Bible in the USA.

"According to the CBA, whose rankings are based on sales at member Christian retail stores in the U.S. through Aug. 3, 2013, the top Bible translations are: (1) New International Version; (2) King James Version; (3) New King James Version; (4) English Standard Version; (5) New Living Translation; (6) Holman Christian Standard Bible; (7) New American Standard; (8) Common English Bible; (9) New International Readers Version; (10) Reina Valera 1960."
Top Bible Translations Remain NIV, KJV and NKJV

Translating into modern english only began in recent history. People still use the KJV because it was the only one to be widely circulated since its production in the 1600's Modern english bibles are a relatively new thing. But there are now many modern english bibles to choose from and its a good idea to grab one and put the KJV back up on the shelf...unless you really love Shakespeare and understand medieval English well.

 

[Neo Deist]

Translating into modern english only began in recent history. People still use the KJV because it was the only one to be widely circulated since its production in the 1600's Modern english bibles are a relatively new thing. But there are now many modern english bibles to choose from and its a good idea to grab one and put the KJV back up on the shelf...unless you really love Shakespeare and understand medieval English well.

I agree. Just make sure you don't use a highly paraphrased version. The NASB is widely considered the most accurate formal equivalent translation among biblical scholars, regardless of denomination.

 

[jojom]

the point is that the original word is 'ra, that is the word being translated. Ra has various meanings. And the way we generally undestand 'evil' is not necessarily conveying the same idea.

Which proves my point that the Bible can't be trusted to convey god's intent. I looked into it a bit and found that ra in Isaiah 45:7 besides meaning evil and sorrow is also translated as doom, woe, trouble, calamity, and disaster. So it's anybody's guess what god was telling us he created, although "evil" seemed to be the most popular. Take your pick I guess.