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Trump's supporters are trying to intimidate voters

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Perhaps you were young then, & didn't read the news.
I was in my early forties then and very keen on the news. Like today's Trumpisms, the scant evidence was circumstantial and quite inflated. To our horror, it became singularly apparent that the entire scam was an endeavor to benefit Haliburton and other Shrub cronies. One of the first things Obama did when he came into office was to grant immunity to Shrub over this. America was spared a huge scandal that would have been almost as divisive as Trump incarnate.

At least I wasn't as senile and forgetful as you seem to be. :D :D :D
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The difference is a simple one. The multiple experts in the Iraq fiasco consisted of intelligence analyst in 5 countries all reading separate intelligence reports from their source in Iraq. Then used each other as corroborating sources.
But after the fact it was revealed that they all were talking to the same guy.
This is 3 different companies, looking at multiple hacks, and an entirely different guy, a British professor, looking at a separate data set in Germany, and drawing the same conclusion.
If you can't see the difference I don't know what to say.
Perhaps it's not what I can't see, but what I do see.
It's not so simple as you say.
The administration can require particular results of contractors.
I've seen this first hand IRL.
And even these contractors are only speculating that Russia is a likely candidate.
No one has presented any named expert who says more than this.
Yet it's taken on faith that the politically preferred inference is fact.

The more important question is....why do this?
We've been engaged in cyberwarfare with many countries for a long time now.
It's even likely that Putin is correct in his accusation that we've meddled in his
political affairs too. I speculate that Hillary & fans want to portray what is normal
as something new & threatening because it's so effective at whipping the masses
into a supportive frenzy. The problem with this is not the inherent dishonesty,
but the risk of increasing conflict with Russia. That would lead nowhere good.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
One of the first things Obama did when he came into office was to grant immunity to Shrub over this.
Actually, the very first thing Obama did in office was continue the Bush agenda, ie, the wars.
Don't believe me?
I have proof!
giphy.gif
 

pondsbb

Member
Perhaps it's not what I can't see, but what I do see.
It's not so simple as you say.
The administration can require particular results of contractors.
I've seen this first hand IRL.
And even these contractors are only speculating that Russia is a likely candidate.
No one has presented any named expert who says more than this.
Yet it's taken on faith that the politically preferred inference is fact.

The more important question is....why do this?
We've been engaged in cyberwarfare with many countries for a long time now.
It's even likely that Putin is correct in his accusation that we've meddled in his
political affairs too. I speculate that Hillary & fans want to portray what is normal
as something new & threatening because it's so effective at whipping the masses
into a supportive frenzy. The problem with this is not the inherent dishonesty,
but the risk of increasing conflict with Russia. That would lead nowhere good.
I know..a covert attack that the whole world knows about.

They are playing video games with Russia and America.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Perhaps it's not what I can't see, but what I do see.
It's not so simple as you say.
The administration can require particular results of contractors.
I've seen this first hand IRL.
And even these contractors are only speculating that Russia is a likely candidate.
No one has presented any named expert who says more than this.
Yet it's taken on faith that the politically preferred inference is fact.

The more important question is....why do this?
We've been engaged in cyberwarfare with many countries for a long time now.
It's even likely that Putin is correct in his accusation that we've meddled in his
political affairs too. I speculate that Hillary & fans want to portray what is normal
as something new & threatening because it's so effective at whipping the masses
into a supportive frenzy. The problem with this is not the inherent dishonesty,
but the risk of increasing conflict with Russia. That would lead nowhere good.


The increased risk of conflict with Russia has a lot more to do with Putin invading Crimea, shooting down airliners and engaging in a proxy war against our allies in the middle east than any claims about cyber attacks. This is the part of the equation you seem to be ignoring. We can see clearly a trend of aggression from Russia.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The increased risk of conflict with Russia has a lot more to do with Putin invading Crimea, shooting down airliners and engaging in a proxy war against our allies in the middle east than any claims about cyber attacks. This is the part of the equation you seem to be ignoring. We can see clearly a trend of aggression from Russia.
Oh, dear.....you think I ignore that without even asking me about it.
Here's your what your problem might be.....
You look at Russian aggression, & you presume that violent conflict is the solution.
Therefore Hillary is the best choice.
I've a different premise, ie, negotiate away conflict.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Clinton is the consummate negotiator. Far better than Trump could ever be. She'll talk softly because Putin knows she has a bigger stick. We're not talking war either.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Oh, dear.....you think I ignore that without even asking me about it.
Here's your what your problem might be.....
You look at Russian aggression, & you presume that violent conflict is the solution.
Therefore Hillary is the best choice.
I've a different premise, ie, negotiate away conflict.

I didn't say that.

I don't think you ignore it. You said the danger with Clinton is her increasing tensions with Russia. But we are not the instigator in this case. That is obvious if you look at the big picture.

Cyber attacks are an attempt at covertly affecting change. By bringing it out in the light of day it loses virtually all of its effectiveness. Russia has repeatedly given itself a black eye with their behavior. Why hide that fact from the public and allow cyber attacks to continue?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I didn't say that.
True.
I was clear about it being just speculation.
I don't think you ignore it. You said the danger with Clinton is her increasing tensions with Russia. But we are not the instigator in this case. That is obvious if you look at the big picture.
To focus upon who instigates instead of what can be done about it is a mistake.
Moreover, Russia sees us as instigating trouble with NATO's increased militarization.
I see Hillary as more likely than Trump to try brinkmanship.
This is the bigger picture.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
True.
I was clear about it being just speculation.

To focus upon who instigates instead of what can be done about it is a mistake.
Moreover, Russia sees us as instigating trouble with NATO's increased militarization.
I see Hillary as more likely than Trump to try brinkmanship.
This is the bigger picture.

And, as I have pointed out, I think you are out of your mind. Clinton may have more ties to the military. But Trump has serious anger issues that are plain for anyone to see. Clinton may be a bit of a hawk, but Trump is a loose canon. She may use our military as a scalpel.. in ways I don't approve of. Trump is likely to use it as a sledge hammer.. the guy has no foreign policy experience and the worst possible temperament for the job.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And, as I have pointed out, I think you are out of your mind.
Well, I am a Libertarian after all.
You neurotypicals have trouble thinking outside that small box you call "normal".
Clinton may have more ties to the military. But Trump has serious anger issues that are plain for anyone to see. Clinton may be a bit of a hawk, but Trump is a loose canon. She may use our military as a scalpel.. in ways I don't approve of. Trump is likely to use it as a sledge hammer.. the guy has no foreign policy experience and the worst possible temperament for the job.
Trump is indeed a loose canon.
But Hillary is a hawk when she is clear of mind & focused.
It's worse than this though, because she too has anger issues.
As a skilled politician, she keeps them out of the public eye.
Many who have worked for her (eg, Secret Service) have
revealed her mercurial temper & penchant for abuse.
Trump gets credit for treating Russia as a partner instead of a foe.
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
Sounds like the perfect cover for a Hillary loss or damaging emails being revealed.
I still believe it was inside sources. All the mysterious DNC linked deaths seem rather suspicious.
But, nothing new. The masses will still believe anything their government force feeds, blame and taking attention away from themselves.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We might also ask how many DNC offices have been firebombed?
How many RNC operatives have been recorded divulging their plans to incite violence at the opposition's rallies?
 
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