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Muslims, I Find This Really Offensive

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Just the verse of Quran one quotes from the verses in the context, some verses predceding and some following.
I am very aware some of Islam's harshest critiques frequently do that, with the biggest part of what they quote being about defensive wars when the full context is read. But nevertheless there are specific instructions to certain people.
I reasonable believe that one will see through the issue.
The Abrahamic books are extremely violent and very strict in their laws. I can't see through either one. Slavery is permitted, women are subjugated to men and considered unclean while she's on her period, and on numerous occasions god demanded war, genocide, abortion, sex slavery, and even crops and cattle be destroyed. You say these are corruptions that have been added, but yet there are those who would disagree. The Bible and Quran do have their high points, but you'd have to cut huge chunks out of both to cleanse the violence and calls for violence (Jesus' saving the woman's life and stating let he who is without sin cast the first stone is a rare example of tolerance, forgiveness, and a polite "bugger off" in the Abrahamic "trilogy"). But on what grounds do you include parts while excluding the others, especially with such harsh warnings against adding or excluding things?
 
That's an interesting idea.
I do see some of the author's idea in the general idea of the story, that the story is meant to follow the exploits of Ahiqar/Haman as adviser to the Egyptian Pharaoh. But what I also see is an attempt (or mistake) to conflate this well-known Assyrian tale, with the other well-known Biblical one. There doesn't seem to be any tale about Ahiqar's Pharaoh trying to build a tower, nor is his name Haman. Perhaps what the author means to say, was the Qur'anic way of re-interpreting these Biblical stories to match tales they were familiar with. And so they took various elements of separate Biblical stories to create a tale that more closely resembled the one they knew. That I can more readily agree to.

If that's the case, then it remains a mixed bag of a tale.

Ahiqar was fabled for his wisdom in Late Antique monotheistic circles more
than any other person - with one possible exception: Solomon. Interestingly,
Solomon (or Sulayman) is the only other person in the Qur' an to build a sarh and
. he does so in a context that closely parallels the Ahiqar and Fir' awn episodes. In
the Qur'anic description of their meeting (Q 27:23-44), Sulayman hosts the
Queen of Sheba and invites her to embrace Allah's religion. They challenge each
other with various tests, and when she arrives at his court, he tricks her into lifting
her dress by building a sarh that creates the illusion that she was about to step on
water. Upon realising that Solomon outsmarted her, she immediately submits to
Allah, the sahr playing a direct and pivotal role in her decision to convert.
This Qur'iinic episode loudly echoes both the Biblical account of Solomon's
meeting with the Queen of Sheba, 40 as well as midrashic elaborations on the story
related in the Targum Sheni to the .Book of Esther.41 What concerns us here,
however, is the relationship between the Qur'anic version of this story and
Fir' awn's sarh Even a superficial comparison between the two episodes reveals
that they are inverted parallels of each other: Both Fir'awn and Sulayman attempt
to build a Sulayman succeeds whereas Fir'awn fails; Solomon's sarh is the
means by Which the Queen of Sheba embraces Allah; Fir' awn's is .the. means
by which Pharaoh expresses his rejection of Allah.

For how Nadan became Haman see p474 of the previously linked text.

A mixed bag it certainly is, although this is unlikely to reflect a 'mistake'. More a rhetorical rearticulation of stories common to the milieu in which the Quran was 'revealed'.

I'm talking more in the context of the sitz-im-leben of the 7th C, rather than what later became Islamic Orthodoxy and the claims inherent within its tradition.

With who on the other side of the Qur'an?

In short, while there are Christian formulas in the Qur’ān, there are no clear Jewish formulas in it, and the same can be said about its apparently pro-Jewish formulas. Conversely, there are a considerable number of anti-Jewish polemical formulas (which cannot be read as intra-Jewish ones in contrast to many of the anti-Christian polemical formulas that can be interpreted as intra-Christian controversial formulas, on which see below), as well as a few anti-Jewish (and anti-Christian) supersessionist formulas in the Qur’ān.

Thus we have in the latter:
(a1) Christian formulas ✓;
(a2) Pro-Christian formulas ✓;
(a3) Anti-Christian (and/or intra-Christian) polemical formulas ✓; and
(a4) Anti-Christian supersessionist formulas ✓;
vs.
(b1) Jewish formulas ? ;
(b2) Pro-Jewish formulas ? ;
(b3) Anti-Jewish polemical formulas ✓; and
(b4) Anti-Jewish supersessionist formulas ✓.

Also, when one looks into the biblical material in the Qur’ān – by biblical I mean here relative to the Hebrew Bible alone – one gets the overall impression that this material is generally read through a Christian lens; in fact, its knowledge is often mediated through other, basically Syriac-Christian, texts (e.g. the Joseph story in Q 12, as convincingly shown by Witztum 2011).
(A Messianic Controversy Behind the Making of Muḥammad as the Last Prophet?)


I don't have enough knowledge about the Qur'an to argue. I don't think its necessarily difficult to accept that the Qur'anic author(s) simply didn't have enough Biblical knowledge and pieced it together - based on the debates of the day that may have been floating around - themselves to create new accounts. I also think there seems to be a lot that was written as a polemic against those that didn't accept the Qur'an. Choosing the side of a debate to present in the Qur'an in order to castigate those that don't accept the emerging religion for those that do or vilifying a people through inaccurate portrayal of their beliefs when they are exiled and massacred and unable to respond. Those things don't seem to far from the authors either.

So what I will concede is that you're right if the author(s) of the Qur'an was not an illiterate camel driver who occasioned among the Jews and Christians and was privy to some of their concerns of the day but not the full story, but was actually a literate scholar (or group of them) engaged in the debates of the day. Then it must be that the mistakes were intentional conflations and distorted polemics to encourage its readers against those that were unwilling to follow the Qur'an.

That is an argument that is often made, for example in The Qur’ān and the Aramaic Gospel Traditions by Emran el-Bardawi, (which in its 'sources and method' chapter contains probably the best summary of the full range of 'Western' academic Quranic scholarship I've ever read).

If you are interested, a while ago I posted a load of links for academic scholarship on early Islam here
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I am very aware some of Islam's harshest critiques frequently do that, with the biggest part of what they quote being about defensive wars when the full context is read. But nevertheless there are specific instructions to certain people.
The Abrahamic books are extremely violent and very strict in their laws. I can't see through either one. Slavery is permitted, women are subjugated to men and considered unclean while she's on her period, and on numerous occasions god demanded war, genocide, abortion, sex slavery, and even crops and cattle be destroyed. You say these are corruptions that have been added, but yet there are those who would disagree. The Bible and Quran do have their high points, but you'd have to cut huge chunks out of both to cleanse the violence and calls for violence (Jesus' saving the woman's life and stating let he who is without sin cast the first stone is a rare example of tolerance, forgiveness, and a polite "bugger off" in the Abrahamic "trilogy"). But on what grounds do you include parts while excluding the others, especially with such harsh warnings against adding or excluding things?
I will restrict myself only to Islam, Jews and Christians may answer about them, if they so like.
What specific verse or issue about Islam is in your focus? Please restrict to one, whatever is the strongest in your focus.
Regards
 
I will restrict myself only to Islam, Jews and Christians may answer about them, if they so like.
What specific verse or issue about Islam is in your focus? Please restrict to one, whatever is the strongest in your focus.
Regards
As a pagan, any Muslim is permitted to perform jihad against me. It's permitted in the scriptures.

(20:4645) – “…He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa’id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!”
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Ahiqar was fabled for his wisdom in Late Antique monotheistic circles more
than any other person - with one possible exception: Solomon. Interestingly,
Solomon (or Sulayman) is the only other person in the Qur' an to build a sarh and
. he does so in a context that closely parallels the Ahiqar and Fir' awn episodes. In
the Qur'anic description of their meeting (Q 27:23-44), Sulayman hosts the
Queen of Sheba and invites her to embrace Allah's religion. They challenge each
other with various tests, and when she arrives at his court, he tricks her into lifting
her dress by building a sarh that creates the illusion that she was about to step on
water. Upon realising that Solomon outsmarted her, she immediately submits to
Allah, the sahr playing a direct and pivotal role in her decision to convert.
This Qur'iinic episode loudly echoes both the Biblical account of Solomon's
meeting with the Queen of Sheba, 40 as well as midrashic elaborations on the story
related in the Targum Sheni to the .Book of Esther.41 What concerns us here,
however, is the relationship between the Qur'anic version of this story and
Fir' awn's sarh Even a superficial comparison between the two episodes reveals
that they are inverted parallels of each other: Both Fir'awn and Sulayman attempt
to build a Sulayman succeeds whereas Fir'awn fails; Solomon's sarh is the
means by Which the Queen of Sheba embraces Allah; Fir' awn's is .the. means
by which Pharaoh expresses his rejection of Allah.

For how Nadan became Haman see p474 of the previously linked text.

A mixed bag it certainly is, although this is unlikely to reflect a 'mistake'. More a rhetorical rearticulation of stories common to the milieu in which the Quran was 'revealed'.

I'm talking more in the context of the sitz-im-leben of the 7th C, rather than what later became Islamic Orthodoxy and the claims inherent within its tradition.



In short, while there are Christian formulas in the Qur’ān, there are no clear Jewish formulas in it, and the same can be said about its apparently pro-Jewish formulas. Conversely, there are a considerable number of anti-Jewish polemical formulas (which cannot be read as intra-Jewish ones in contrast to many of the anti-Christian polemical formulas that can be interpreted as intra-Christian controversial formulas, on which see below), as well as a few anti-Jewish (and anti-Christian) supersessionist formulas in the Qur’ān.

Thus we have in the latter:
(a1) Christian formulas ✓;
(a2) Pro-Christian formulas ✓;
(a3) Anti-Christian (and/or intra-Christian) polemical formulas ✓; and
(a4) Anti-Christian supersessionist formulas ✓;
vs.
(b1) Jewish formulas ? ;
(b2) Pro-Jewish formulas ? ;
(b3) Anti-Jewish polemical formulas ✓; and
(b4) Anti-Jewish supersessionist formulas ✓.

Also, when one looks into the biblical material in the Qur’ān – by biblical I mean here relative to the Hebrew Bible alone – one gets the overall impression that this material is generally read through a Christian lens; in fact, its knowledge is often mediated through other, basically Syriac-Christian, texts (e.g. the Joseph story in Q 12, as convincingly shown by Witztum 2011).
(A Messianic Controversy Behind the Making of Muḥammad as the Last Prophet?)




That is an argument that is often made, for example in The Qur’ān and the Aramaic Gospel Traditions by Emran el-Bardawi, (which in its 'sources and method' chapter contains probably the best summary of the full range of 'Western' academic Quranic scholarship I've ever read).

If you are interested, a while ago I posted a load of links for academic scholarship on early Islam here
Although I'm left lacking a bit of clarity on a few things, overall I remain duly impressed with the content of your sources and your ability to cite them. There's definitely a lot to reconsider. Thanks for that.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Although I'm left lacking a bit of clarity on a few things, overall I remain duly impressed with the content of your sources and your ability to cite them. There's definitely a lot to reconsider. Thanks for that.
One argues with @Augustus often at their own peril, LOL. His thinking is much, much deeper than the usual, that much is sure. He is a veritable treasure trove of information and RF is a better place because of him. Given my scant knowledge about Islam, I'm often surprised at how well I can handle interactions with him, LOL. It's a bit like a toddler chatting to a wise old man.
 
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Tumah

Veteran Member
One argues with @Augustus often at their own peril, LOL. His thinking is much, much deeper than the usual, that much is sure. He is a veritable treasure trove of information and RF is a better place because of him. Given my scant knowledge about Islam, I'm often surprised at well I can handle interactions with him, LOL. It's a bit like a toddler chatting to a wise old man.
I agree!
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I will restrict myself only to Islam, Jews and Christians may answer about them, if they so like.
What specific verse or issue about Islam is in your focus? Please restrict to one, whatever is the strongest in your focus.

As a pagan, any Muslim is permitted to perform jihad against me. It's permitted in the scriptures.
(20:4645) – “…He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa’id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!”
Kindly quote from Quran the first and the foremost source of guidance for all Muslim, whatever the denomination. Please
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
OK, that's incredibly easy. I hope you're not a Muslim because that would mean a pagan knows more about your ideology than you do lol.
It's called the sword verse and specifically states "slay the pagan wherever ye find the"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_Verse
Please quote the verse of Quran or give its reference.
I am an ordinary man on the street without any claim of any scholarship or piety. Others could easily know more than me , obviously. Please
Regards
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Please quote the verse of Quran or give its reference.
I am an ordinary man on the street without any claim of any scholarship or piety. Others could easily know more than me , obviously. Please
Regards
He is talking about 9:5
He did present a link in the post you quoted and replied to....
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
OK, that's incredibly easy. I hope you're not a Muslim because that would mean a pagan knows more about your ideology than you do lol.
It's called the sword verse and specifically states "slay the pagan wherever ye find the"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_Verse
He is talking about 9:5
He did present a link in the post you quoted and replied to....
Thanks for providing the reference.
I give the verse with the verses in the context for perusal of everybody:

[9:1] This is a declaration of complete absolution on the part of Allah and His Messenger from all obligation to the idolaters with whom you had made promises.
[9:2] So go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the disbelievers.
[9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of the idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who disbelieve,
[9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.
[9:7] How can there be a treaty of these idolaters with Allah and His Messenger, except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? So, as long as they stand true to you, stand true to them. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:8] How can it be when, if they prevail against you, they would not observe any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of you? They would please you with their mouths, while their hearts refuse, and most of them are perfidious.
[9:9] They barter the Signs of Allah for a paltry price and turn men away from His way. Evil indeed is that which they do.
[9:10] They observe not any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of anyone who trusts them. And it is they who are transgressors.
[9:11] But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then they are your brethren in faith. And We explain the Signs for a people who have knowledge.
[9:12] And if they break their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion, then fight these leaders of disbelief — surely, they have no regard for their oaths — that they may desist.
[9:13] Will you not fight a people who have broken their oaths, and who plotted to turn out the Messenger, and they were the first to commence hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Nay, Allah is most worthy that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=9&verse=11
Now, please establish one's reasonable and rational view point from the verses. Please
Anybody, please

Regards
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Thanks for providing the reference.
I give the verse with the verses in the context for perusal of everybody:

[9:1] This is a declaration of complete absolution on the part of Allah and His Messenger from all obligation to the idolaters with whom you had made promises.
[9:2] So go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the disbelievers.
[9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of the idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who disbelieve,
[9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.
[9:7] How can there be a treaty of these idolaters with Allah and His Messenger, except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? So, as long as they stand true to you, stand true to them. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:8] How can it be when, if they prevail against you, they would not observe any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of you? They would please you with their mouths, while their hearts refuse, and most of them are perfidious.
[9:9] They barter the Signs of Allah for a paltry price and turn men away from His way. Evil indeed is that which they do.
[9:10] They observe not any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of anyone who trusts them. And it is they who are transgressors.
[9:11] But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then they are your brethren in faith. And We explain the Signs for a people who have knowledge.
[9:12] And if they break their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion, then fight these leaders of disbelief — surely, they have no regard for their oaths — that they may desist.
[9:13] Will you not fight a people who have broken their oaths, and who plotted to turn out the Messenger, and they were the first to commence hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Nay, Allah is most worthy that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=9&verse=11
Now, please establish one's reasonable and rational view point from the verses. Please
Anybody, please

Regards
Sound to me that basically pagans are to be killed.
the ones who were mistakenly taken prisoner are to be given the option to convert.
If they convert, they are considered brothers.
If they do not convert, kill them.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
This is from a period where religious group and political/tribal entity were non-separate. There are stories of a tribal chief converting to Islam and bringing his whole tribe with him, which essentially meant the same thing as pledging authority to Muhammad's state. This is not like what we talk about now when we say conversion.

Today these distinctions do exist, but people still try and apply the verse, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
 
This is from a period where religious group and political/tribal entity were non-separate. There are stories of a tribal chief converting to Islam and bringing his whole tribe with him, which essentially meant the same thing as pledging authority to Muhammad's state. This is not like what we talk about now when we say conversion.

Today these distinctions do exist, but people still try and apply the verse, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
That was written very elequantly but you're still basically just saying "Yes the Quran does say this, but it was only applied more often in the past" Now that you realize your religious doctrine can be taken and manipulated for any interpretation you should understand that there is no true interpretation and therefore the whole entire ideology is worthless.
 
One argues with @Augustus often at their own peril, LOL. His thinking is much, much deeper than the usual, that much is sure. He is a veritable treasure trove of information and RF is a better place because of him. Given my scant knowledge about Islam, I'm often surprised at how well I can handle interactions with him, LOL. It's a bit like a toddler chatting to a wise old man.


Too kind sirs :tophat:

Am quite surprised more than 1 person bothers to read some of my posts...


So what I will concede is that you're right if the author(s) of the Qur'an was not an illiterate camel driver who occasioned among the Jews and Christians and was privy to some of their concerns of the day but not the full story, but was actually a literate scholar (or group of them) engaged in the debates of the day. Then it must be that the mistakes were intentional conflations and distorted polemics to encourage its readers against those that were unwilling to follow the Qur'an.

Just something else from the source I mentioned previously:

The Qur’ān’s complex manipulation of the Aramaic Gospel Traditions is,
furthermore, neither accidental nor haphazard. It is rather, quite deliberate and
sophisticated. It wood behoove readers to realize a basic fact concerning dogmatic
re-articulation as we have laid it out herein, namely that the Qur’ān excercises
complete control over its challenging or re-appropriation of passages from the
Aramaic Gospels—not vice versa. This is evident both implicitly and explicitly
within the text... Finally, consider that the text skillfully translates or interprets
Hebrew and Aramaic terminology and seamlessly integrates them into the overall
literary, rhetorical, and theological coherence of the particular passage or Surah
wherin they occur, which is the unmistakable intention behind zakariyyā in Q 19:2
and s.arrah in Q 51:29 for example.

Dispensing with hasty and superficial readings of the text—which may incorrectly
yield ‘mistakes’ or ‘contraditions’ in the qur’ānic re-telling of Biblical narratives
or post-Biblical controversies—is the first step in truly appreciating its
linguistic, structural, and thematic integrity... The point is that such a dexterous command
of Biblical and post-Biblical literature as a whole, and such strong volition on the
part of the Qur’ān’s authorship, is central to our understanding of its dogmatic rearticulation
of the Aramaic Gospels Tradition. (The Quran and the Aramaic Gospel Traditions)

As I mentioned I can't recommend pp1-48 of this text enough for anyone with even the slightest interest in Early Islam. You can probably read the first 30 or so pages on Google books here. It's basically a literature review of 200+ sources and is a fantastic overview of scholarship. I can't think of a better 48 pages I've read.

Another interesting (and much shorter) article is Reading the Quran through the Bible [here] which convincingly shows how the audience must have been fully familiar with the Biblical narratives (and that many later Muslim exegetes didn't understand their own text because they were unfamiliar with the Bible and were forced to speculate wildly):

Another case is the Qur’an’s reference to the laughter of Sarah (a name that does not appear in the text; the only woman given a name in the Qur’an is Mary). In Genesis, Sarah laughs after she hears the annunciation of Isaac’s birth, but the Qur’an refers to her laughter first. Accordingly, Muslim commentators struggle to explain why she laughed. One famous commentator, the tenth-century al-Tabari, wonders if she laughed out of frustration when the visitors would not eat the food she prepared or if she laughed out of relief when she realized that the visitors did not have the habits of the Sodomites. Yet the reader who knows the Bible will understand that Sarah laughed out of surprise at the promise of a son in her old age, even if the Qur’an—for the sake of a rhyme in Arabic—reports these events in reverse order.

In such cases the Qur’an seems to count on its audience’s knowledge of the Bible. Indeed, by taking a liberty with the order of the story, the Qur’an seems utterly confident in that knowledge. It expects that the reader has the Qur’an in one hand and the Bible in the other.

This presupposition of audience knowledge is hard to reconcile with the traditional 'pagan backwater' narrative.
 
And a couple more:

"Even a brief perusal of the Arabic Qurʾān is sufficient to convince the first-time reader that the text presumes a high degree of scriptural literacy on the part of its audience. In it there are frequent references to biblical patriarchs, prophets, and other gures of Late Antique, Jewish, and Christian religious lore. One hears of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Job, and Jonah, among others from the Hebrew Bible. Similarly, one reads of Jesus, Mary, Zecharaiah, John the Baptist, and Jesus’ disciples from the New Testament, but no mention of Paul and his epistles. What is more, there are numerous echoes in the Qurʾān of non- biblical, Jewish and Christian traditions, some of them otherwise found in so-called apocryphal or pseudepigraphic biblical texts. So prominent is this scriptural material in the body of the Islamic scripture that one twentieth- century Western scholar of Islam was prompted to speak of the Qurʾān as “a truncated, Arabic edition of the Bible.” But in fact the Qurʾān is much more than just an evocation of earlier biblical narratives; it incorporates the recollection of those earlier scriptures into its own call to belief, to Islam and its proper observance, as it says, in good, clarifying Arabic" S. Griffiths - The Bible in Arabic

"a good number of Qur’ānic pericopes look like Arabic ingenious patchworks of Biblical and para- Biblical texts, designed to comment passages or aspects of the Scripture, whereas others look like Arabic translations of liturgical formulas.

This is not unexpected if we have in mind some Late Antique religious practices, namely the well-known fact that Christian Churches followed the Jewish custom of reading publicly the Scriptures, according to the lectionary principle. In other words, people did not read the whole of the Scripture to the assembly, but lectionaries (Syriac qǝryānā, “reading of Scripture in Divine Service”, etymon of Arabic qur’ān), containing selected passages of the Scripture, to be read in the community. Therefore, many of the texts which constitute the Qur’ān should not be seen (at least if we are interested in their original Sitz im Leben) as substitutes for the (Jewish or Christian) Scripture, but rather as a (putatively divinely inspired) commentary of Scripture."
Traces of Bilingualism/Multilingualism in Qur'anic Arabic - G. Dye
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
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