Does race exist?

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok, but for humans its probably so slow that we only observe significant evolution over 100s of thousands of years though I'm not an anthropologist.

We've actually gotten quiet abit taller over the past couple of hundred years.

 

[metis]

Over the last roughly 20,000 years, we've developed more of an overbite, namely that our upper incisors heavily overlap our lower incisors. The cause of this is a reduction in the size of our molars, and this may have been caused by the fact that we cook most of our food which softens it, thus wearing down the molars less. It's hard for us to imagine this today, but tooth and jaw decay used to be a killer because of infection.

 

[Brickjectivity]

We've actually gotten quiet abit taller over the past couple of hundred years.

That can possibly be explained by improved nutrition. Notice how in post WWII Japan people have very suddenly gotten a lot taller? Its because they get more calcium probably.

Over the last roughly 20,000 years, we've developed more of an overbite, namely that our upper incisors heavily overlap our lower incisors. The cause of this is a reduction in the size of our molars, and this may have been caused by the fact that we cook most of our food which softens it, thus wearing down the molars less. It's hard for us to imagine this today, but tooth and jaw decay used to be a killer because of infection.

That's quite a lot of progress to make in 20,000 years. It would only take about 5,000 years for all of our various skin colors to get evenly disburse around the world. (that's a guess) All it takes is for people to keep moving around like we do and having occasional babies with people from other countries, like we do. So in the short term I still don't see evolution as being a real game changer. It practically doesn't affect us right now, though I am looking at a book that argues otherwise.

Plus, the fact that there are billions of people all connected...doesn't that slow evolution? It intuitively seems like it should create a kind of genetic inertia.

 

[metis]

That can possibly be explained by improved nutrition. Notice how in post WWII Japan people have very suddenly gotten a lot taller? Its because they get more calcium probably.


That's quite a lot of progress to make in 20,000 years. It would only take about 5,000 years for all of our various skin colors to get evenly disburse around the world. (that's a guess) All it takes is for people to keep moving around like we do and having occasional babies with people from other countries, like we do. So in the short term I still don't see evolution as being a real game changer. It practically doesn't affect us right now, though I am looking at a book that argues otherwise.

Plus, the fact that there are billions of people all connected...doesn't that slow evolution? It intuitively seems like it should create a kind of genetic inertia.

Evolution tends to be faster in smaller societies because most genetic mutations tend to be recessive, thus the chances of two of the same mutations combining are more likely to occur there than in a larger society. OTOH, there are more mutations in a larger society, which at least off-sets some of the advantages of speed in a smaller society. Today, with seven billion people, most of which are quite mobile, the evolutionary process is probably quite slow but it still is happening.

 

[ShivaFan]

Race exists among humans as much as it does among salmon, but race doesn't exist among racoons really, but a tiny bit among skunks. But ultimately we humans will have to all be united in the great struggle with the outer space aliens who might be Rakshasas but they won't be E.T. on a bicycle.

Other

 

[gnomon]

Race only exists in the minds of those human beings who desire to express a useless distinction upon humanity......

In other words...........only stupid or deviant human beings continue to express a distinction between humanity.........

edit: And I stand upon this commentary against all liberal and imbecilic attempts to provide some useless commentary about "ethnic" or "race" relations. Got it?

 

[Revoltingest]

Race only exists in the minds of those human beings who desire to express a useless distinction upon humanity......
In other words...........only stupid or deviant human beings continue to express a distinction between humanity.........
edit: And I stand upon this commentary against all liberal and imbecilic attempts to provide some useless commentary about "ethnic" or "race" relations. Got it?

I don't entirely understand the last part, but I think I've just been insulted for seeing race.
Good thing you're such a pretty kitty!
Otherwise, I'd be miffed.

 

[gnomon]

I don't entirely understand the last part, but I think I've just been insulted for seeing race.
Good thing you're such a pretty kitty!
Otherwise, I'd be miffed.

I guess what I was trying to state......in a very undiplomatic manner...

Is that the concept of race in the classical sense.....based upon the color of one's skin or even deriving heritage......is such an absurd concept when compared to the scientific knowledge of human genetic variation...that only deviant minds continue to perpetuate race as a concept in order to construct illogical ideals of social constructs......

Or in short...in modern Western terminology.....race is a term that only has political meaning for political purposes but is absolute devoid of scientific construct........and then you have the cultural idealists...the cockroaches of human intellect.....in regards to racial constructs....

edit: I hope that makes sense because if not I shall get vulgar.......

 

[gnomon]

But no.......

If so many of you are still attempting to bring forth an intelligent argument.....race does not exist among humans. The only way you can attempt to argue otherwise is to completely redefine all the classical definitions of race. And here's a scrib note......culture does not equal race........

Good god.

I seriously hope most of you are not that stupid to continue to deliver this useless nonsense about human race....."People have gotten taller"......"People live longer"......"Some people have better dental hygiene".....

What a ****ing joke.......

When I look at the news......watch how ISIS is conducting such violent campaigns........I recall everything I read about the Holocaust.....how madmen seeking power marginalized people based upon superficial constructs.....how the European colonialists treated the native tribes......

I will say this and I mean it......

Any member of this forum who believes in the superficial racial construct presented through history.......you absolutely support the conduct of those who practiced inhumane and utter violence against other human beings because the delineating factor was.......that they were of a different race.....they were not human......they were others........

I'm serious. Check yourself. Check your research. Check your beliefs. Homo Sapiens Sapiens is the only "human race" on this planet. All the differences so many dull intellects like to call "racial differences" amount to nothing more than cultural differences. One does not have to be of a specific "race" to belong to a "culture". Culture is a socially defined concept and not a biological one.

edit: Should I go on....I could get more insulting....I'm in a mood. But tonight only. I should sell some tickets.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What a ****ing joke.......

It is no "****ing joke" that we have gotten taller over the centuries. Have you ever seen a skeleton from a couple centuries ago? They look, by our standards, really short. Living longer is related to medical advances, not biological processes which have added several centimeters to our height over the years.

 

[gnomon]

The joke is this.........

What the hell does it have to do with "race"?

edit: I'll be back over a smoke..........

 

[Kirran]

I'm with the cat, basically.

The definition provided in the OP seems far more vague than the term race as used in general parlance. Also, the terms cline and haplogroup are very different.

No biological evidence for genetically distinct human groups at anything like the scale posited by race theory.

Race as a social construct, sure.

 

[dust1n]

Always?
Those of us who do see that race exists....we're lying in order to claim inferiority of others?

No, those who see race have yet to provide any convincing evidence that the assignment of races is anything other than wholly arbitrary, let alone founded on any actual presented empirical evidence regarding genetics. But, I haven't finished reading the thread yet.

 

[dust1n]

Genetic markers are not cultural constructs.

Neither are they races.

 

[dust1n]

You mean something like this?
Genetic studies of human diversity in East Asia | Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences

Will you pick the ones of the study that accurately denote or confirm the race of a given being?

 

[dust1n]

Do you think these features are just cultural constructs?
- Eye folds

Eyes folds aren't cultural constructs. The idea that I can split all the humans apart in the world between those who do and don't have eye folds and then call them two separate races, is a cultural construct.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, those who see race have yet to provide any convincing evidence that the assignment of races is anything other than wholly arbitrary, let alone founded on any actual presented empirical evidence regarding genetics. But, I haven't finished reading the thread yet.

Well, of course it's arbitrary!
The black ones are the blacks, the white ones are the whites, & the Asians are the yellows.
Science behind it? There are some genotypical & phenotypical differences.
Blacks are good at dancing, whites are good at tractor pulls, & Asians shop at Costco.

 

[Revoltingest]

Eyes folds aren't cultural constructs. The idea that I can split all the humans apart in the world between those who do and don't have eye folds and then call them two separate races, is a cultural construct.

Eye folds are but one of many traits associated with race.
(Have I been unclear on this?)
There are many others, & a preponderance would be a good determiner of race.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Biology does not support the idea that there is more than one human race. Of course people in different geographical regions have evolved different traits that are better suited for their environment (such as eyefolds), but this is just how natural selection works.
Of course there are large dogs and tea-cup dogs, white dogs and black dogs, solid colored and spotted, but even the gargantuan Irish wolf hound and tiny miniature poodle are both canis lupus familiaris.
Humans with round eyes, folded eyes, almond eyes, white skin, brown skin, red skin, males, females, 7-foot-plus giants and 4-foot shorties are all modern homo sapiens.

 

[dust1n]

Eye folds are but one of many traits associated with race.

I associate eye folds with increased insulation, which have started multiple places independently, and the warmest is probably aided by the fact that eyes folds exist from Scandinavia to South East Asia to Inuits.

Individuals are a mix of billions of traits. The permutations are endless. The rate of mutation and adaption in which every generation of people a new unique blend of genes is created yet again. Never have human populations gone through so much genetic drift.

But people don't trace their ancestor by their skin color, or the extra amount fat that helps cover the tear ducts. Markers that are generally used to trace lineage don't really have anything to do with noticeable phenotypes.