Black African Origins for the Ancient Egyptians

[Asante]

Africa now?

Oh wow not very informed are we! Notice how you bypass the cultural examples put before you of black African NOW still carrying on their proud Kemetic traditions. Funny though:

Greece then:

Greece now

The Greeks are still living large I see lol.

 

[Curious George]

Can anyone help me learn what the skin color of the Ancient Eygptians was then? Because, one dude is saying it was black, while some are saying it wasn't black. I'm so confused. :sad4:

Well, interestingly this is similar to discussions about India. Imagine if someone said that Indians were only dark skinned, and any lighter skinned Indians were the product of invading groups such as the aryans. I imagine you might say, that is ridiculous. Well something similar is going on here. The premise is that the middle east represented admixture to a larger degree and the Egyptians were all black. Further, as discussed in other threads, the OP believes that certain satellite groups of black Africans existed and were subject to little admixture. Specifically the Canaanites. If you go through and look at posts by outhouse, legion, caladan, asante, and another poster, now banned, you can see a variety of information which certainly does question the accurate portrayal of Egyptian diversity, but Asante and some other posters seem to reject any light skinned Egyptians or Jews. Apparently there is a conspiracy afoot. Yet, no one denies that these groups did not also contain even the darkest of skin pigmentation. Similarly no one asserts that the inhabitants of ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt were or should be construed as Anglo or nordic. The fact that Hollywood has used Pacific islanders to portray Egyptians seems an irreparable offense. Personally, the fact the focus on skin color begins to become trivial. No one can deny the middle eastern or African civilizations location. Thus both Africa and the middle east shaped the world much the same way as India did. The groups involved in this shaping were inhabitants of those lands. They were not shaped some far off invading group, and any diversity that was present was the naturally arising. Since that time "whites" have not taken over the lands and displaced the indigenous populations like that which occurred in the Americas. While more admixture has occurred there is no reason to doubt that Egyptians, since the time of ancient Egypt were a pretty diverse lot.

 

[Asante]

OP is trying to paint Egyptains origins darker then they really are.

Ah yes the "origin" of ancient Egypt. If I am wrong about the race of the origins of the original ancient Egyptians then why don't YOU present an opposing narrative? Cite archaeological, linguistic, cultural and biological evidence to support your claims. I won't hold breath waiting for you to do this (because you and I both know that you cannot do this due to a lack of evidence to support any opposing theories). Let's have at it Mr. "Hero" save everybody from the dreaded "Afrocentric"...come on let's tangle!

 

[EtuMalku]

Here, allow me to provide you with a model that posits scholarship, makes a point, is clear, and is not aggravating.

Some accounts argued that Egyptian culture emerged from more southernly African peoples, while others pointed to influences from the Near East, and yet others proposed that at least the upper classes were pale or "darkened" Caucasians.
- Edith Sanders: The Hamitic hypothesis: its origin and functions in time perspective, The Journal of African History, Vol. 10, No. 4 (1969)

Since the second half of the 20th century, anthropologists have rejected the notion of race as having any validity in the study of human biology
- Statement On Race – by American Anthropological Association
- Biological Aspects of Race - by American Association of Physical Anthropologists

It is now largely agreed that Dynastic Egyptians were indigenous to the Nile area. About 5,000 years ago the Sahara area dried out, and part of the indigenous Saharan population retreated East towards the Nile Valley. In addition peoples from the Near East entered the Nile Valley, bringing with them wheat, barley, sheep, goats and possibly cattle.
- "Ancient Egyptian Origins". Ngm.nationalgeographic.com

In the southern part of Egypt (Upper Egypt) the predynastic Badarian culture was followed by the Naqada culture. These people seem to be more closely related to the Nubians and North East Africans than with northern Egyptians.
- Zakrzewski, Sonia (2007). "Population continuity or population change: Formation of the ancient Egyptian state". American Journal of Physical Anthropology
- Hunting for the Elusive Nubian A-Group People – by Maria Gatto, archaeology.org

The bottom line here is that we all know that part of Egyptian history and culture was made up of "black" skinned people . . . the top line here is; WHO CARES?

 

[Curious George]

"Diversity"...Yes Kemet was an ethnically diverse civilization from it's beginning. These ethnicities were various different blacks African tribes who mostly settled in the Sudan and Upper Egypt (some went to the difficult terrain of northern Egypt as well). Black Africans are the most physically and genetically diverse people on Earth and the physical remains (skulls) of the ancient Egyptians reflect this indigenous black African diversity. That is why my source presently by Keita on the previous page described the population as "variable", tropically adapted and undeniably African...African diversity.



lol Yeah you're right the Hebrews who came out of ancient Egypt are always shown as Anglo-Saxons. Hell the Bible even gives them English names (John, Luke, Matthew, Peter ect lol) even though Indo-European languages (especially Western European branches) never reached Israel or a close region:

So I don't know when Western Europeans came into the picture but...yeah they (Western Europeans) are portrayed as being the center of the ancient world for some odd reason.



No it's not it's the truth and something many people clearly aren't ready to accept. My evidence is sound...where is yours?



The Greek and Roman empire...of course their was their mixture since the origins. The ancient Egyptians....of black African (the Sudan is there homeland).



What you talking about? The Arabs have been there for over 1,000 years, the Greek and Roman admixture goes back even further (though late in Egyptian history). That's a long time to me...Now I'm not saying that all modern Egyptians have a lack of connection to the land or the original civilization in fact:

[youtube]ZvJ0F299kFQ[/youtube]

Asante,

Last time I read these threads I did so with an open mind. I think that Mesopotamia, Egypt, and the Indus valley civilizations all mixed prior to Rome or Greece ever joining the picture. Though I would not assume that any of these great civilizations did not swallow up a wandering tribe or two. I think to use modern day terminology of "black" and "white" is a misnomer to say the least. Neither Egypt nor Mesopotamia nor India were Anglo or nordic or "aryan" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[psychoslice]

Party of Greece, I don't know where you got your's from.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Oh wow not very informed are we! Notice how you bypass the cultural examples put before you of black African NOW still carrying on their proud Kemetic traditions. Funny though:

Greece then:

Greece now

The Greeks are still living large I see lol.

What does any of that has to do with what I said about Skin Tone?

 

[psychoslice]

Egypt today, see you only see what you want to see.

 

[Asante]

Party of Greece, I don't know where you got your's from.

I was responding to the poster who was being racist in implying that black Africans because of our current state (emerging from OUR Dark Ages) that Africans could not have created and maintained ancient Egypt. I simply pointed out the stupidity in his argument by pointing out that the descendants of those who brought civilization to Europe are a peg above a third world country TODAY and are blamed for bringing Europe's economy down. Not trying to talk bad about the Greeks or anything, but just used them as an example.

Btw here are some projects underway in Lagos, Nigeria (Eko Island0:

Just some random off topic information about Africa. Now back on topic.

 

[Asante]

Egypt today, see you only see what you want to see.

What are you talking about? Did you miss the entire dialogue?

 

[EtuMalku]

What is the point you are trying to make with this thread?
Did you even read my reply?

 

[Curious George]

I was responding to the poster who was being racist in implying that black Africans because of our current state (emerging from OUR Dark Ages) that Africans could not have created and maintained ancient Egypt. I simply pointed out the stupidity in his argument by pointing out that the descendants of those who brought civilization to Europe are a peg above a third world country TODAY and are blamed for bringing Europe's economy down. Not trying to talk bad about the Greeks or anything, but just used them as an example.

Btw here are some projects underway in Lagos, Nigeria (Eko Island0:

...

Just some random off topic information about Africa. Now back on topic.

the poster was saying that ancient Egyptians skin color would fall in the middle of extremes one can see in the people of Africa, not that the civilization would fall. It sounds like you are too sensitive to read thoroughly. Not every post is an attack. He suggested the African genome contains the potential for great diversity with skin pigmentation and the average is a good guessing point for the average ancient Egyptians.

 

[Asante]

The bottom line here is that we all know that part of Egyptian history and culture was made up of "black" skinned people . . . the top line here is; WHO CARES?

Well outside of your world their is a mindset that still lingers in the West called "white supremacy and black inferiority" and this topic is at it's heart. That is why people will make over 15 post in a thread about the subject all the while proclaiming "I don't really care" "I don't an axe to grind". It's all about keeping 100. If we don't keep it 100 then the race will NEVER progress. Ignoring and pretending that a race (amongst those in Western society) issue doesn't exist and or has no bearing on these types of discussion only makes racism and animosity worse.

 

[Curious George]

Well outside of your world their is a mindset that still lingers in the West called "white supremacy and black inferiority" and this topic is at it's heart. That is why people will make over 15 post in a thread about the subject all the while proclaiming "I don't really care" "I don't an axe to grind". It's all about keeping 100. If we don't keep it 100 then the race will NEVER progress. Ignoring and pretending that a race (amongst those in Western society) issue doesn't exist and or has no bearing on these types of discussion only makes racism and animosity worse.

Yet, you are sure that it is not you that "got it twisted." I fail to see how you rationalize attacking natural inhabitants because of their skin color as "coming correct."

 

[psychoslice]

What are you talking about? Did you miss the entire dialogue?

I know what is behind your thinking, I got my eye on you oh yes I have.irate:

 

[EtuMalku]

Well outside of your world their is a mindset that still lingers in the West called "white supremacy and black inferiority" and this topic is at it's heart. That is why people will make over 15 post in a thread about the subject all the while proclaiming "I don't really care" "I don't an axe to grind". It's all about keeping 100. If we don't keep it 100 then the race will NEVER progress. Ignoring and pretending that a race (amongst those in Western society) issue doesn't exist and or has no bearing on these types of discussion only makes racism and animosity worse.

Ahh, I see now. Well, you'll forgive me for being ignorant towards any of that, I made my living as a musician and we all get along, that crap doesn't even enter my mind.
I can't see how anyone finds blacks inferior these days (not that they ever were), after all they are the highest paid athletes, the highest paid entertainers, President of the USA, top shelf Colonels and Generals of the military, some of the greatest musicians ever (if you count Arabic and Indian as black then they ARE the greatest musicians ever) . . . I mean it's just a waste of brain activity at this point, IMO.

 

[EtuMalku]

Miles Davis used to cringe at this crap, he would basically say that all this does is continue any left over oppression, and is not a positive flow.

 

[Asante]

the poster was saying that ancient Egyptians skin color would fall in the middle of extremes one can see in the people of Africa, not that the civilization would fall.

I sincerely apologize to Frank I misread his message! He said "Africa now" and I assumed..well you know. I assumed that because in previous debates many other people (overtly racist in some cases) made that argument. Once again my apologies.

 

[Asante]

Ahh, I see now. Well, you'll forgive me for being ignorant towards any of that, I made my living as a musician and we all get along, that crap doesn't even enter my mind.
I can't see how anyone finds blacks inferior these days (not that they ever were), after all they are the highest paid athletes, the highest paid entertainers, President of the USA, top shelf Colonels and Generals of the military, some of the greatest musicians ever (if you count Arabic and Indian as black then they ARE the greatest musicians ever) . . . I mean it's just a waste of brain activity at this point, IMO.

Cool . The race issue is nothing more than willful ignorance that was borne out of the African Holocaust (Trans Atlantic Slave trade/Colonization).

 

[psychoslice]

There is always going to be people who don't like this or that, be it colour or whatever, even birds don't get on with each other because of their differences, its just life, we all need to do the best we can, and also stop digging up history and using it like a weapon on people of today.