13,000 children killed so far in Gaza

[Jayhawker Soule]

Meanwhile:

• J-Street hales Senator Schumer's speech as a historic turning point, while
• Trump claims Jews who vote Democratic hate their religion, hate everything about Israel.

Given this Schumer|Biden - Trump|Netanyahu dichotomy, literally everything in Judaism that I hold precious demands that I stand on the side of J-Street.

 

[Twilight Hue]

UNICEF is the source for this number and it is questionable.

Yea. They are nothing like they were in its heyday. A zombie of its former self. My respect for the organization disappeared when they became corrupt.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So 13,000 children died for a good cause.

Hamas likely thinks so when they started firing thousands of missiles into Israel.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hamas likely thinks so when they started firing thousands of missiles into Israel.

This justifies Israel's killing 13,000 children,
& planning to starve many more to death?
Blaming Hamas doesn't justify such evil.
This is on the shoulders of Judaism &
Christianity.

 

[Colt]

So, you think Israel can do whatever they want, with no regard to the number of civilian casulties?

No, that's what you hear.

 

[F1fan]

Allow me three observations:

1. For a number of reasons, many if not most wartime casualty number tend to be "questionable."
2. Nevertheless, when "questionable" serves as a knee-jerk dismissive response, I can't help but think of the essentially identical denial trope questioning the magnitude of the Shoah.
3. One is left to wonder what magnitude of carnage you would deem less questionable and more dismissible.

My take was that @Shaul was skeptical of UNICEF as an organization, showing some unstated bias. I'm guessing he sees it as a liberal organization that is pro-child and pro-health, unlike the conservatives of the USA who are pro-fetus, but their concern ends at birth.

As it is Netanyahu wants Trump to be elected, and certainly Trump will ally with him and putin, and thus support the war crimes of both of these leaders. Trump's "America First" attitude will certainly be a basis for not interfering with Netanyahu's and putin's wars against innocent people.

 

[F1fan]

Yea. They are nothing like they were in its heyday. A zombie of its former self. My respect for the organization disappeared when they became corrupt.

And here is another one, accusations against an international organization that aims to help children, yet conservatives are bashing it. Meanwhile they support a corrupt rapist who has intentions to sabotage democracy and international unity.

The only hope for the people of Gaza is Biden, and for Netanyahu to be ousted and replaced with a non-criminal.

 

[Regiomontanus]

No, that's what you hear.

Well, you said in part

"If true this is horrible but..."

It sounds like you are excusing the slaughter of children. Where do you draw the line? If Israel kills 50,000 children while getting of Hamas, that is Ok? Trying to understand what you are saying,

 

[Regiomontanus]

This justifies Israel's killing 13,000 children,
& planning to starve many more to death?
Blaming Hamas doesn't justify such evil.
This is on the shoulders of Judaism &
Christianity.

Sorry, how is Christianity at fault for Israel's right-wing (Jewish) cabinet committing war crimes?

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, how is Christianity at fault for Israel's right-wing (Jewish) cabinet committing war crimes?

Christians largely support Israel's every action.
Consider that Christians dominate USA, & they
elect a majority of Christians to all levels of
government....the same government that
sends money & bombs to Israel to commit
apartheid & genocide....& now starvation.
Christianity & Judaism both own these
crimes against humanity.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Christianity & Judaism both own these
crimes against humanity.

So perhaps "Some Christians and some Jews own these crimes against humanity" would be a more accurate way of saying it.

 

[Revoltingest]

So perhaps "Some Christians and some Jews own these crimes against humanity" would be a more accurate way of saying it.

I carefully chose "Judiasm" & "Christianity", as
opposed to "Jews" & "Christians" because not
all are culpable. However, when the bulk of
those religions support genocide, then the
religions are indeed culpable.
I say the same for Islam supporting denying
rights to to non-Muslims. I say the same
when Scientology persecutes ex-believers.
I say the same when the Catholic Church
enables child sexual abuse.

When churches & theocracies take a stand,
& believer cite scripture to justify it, then
their religion owns the stand taken.

 

[Regiomontanus]

I carefully chose "Judiasm" & "Christianity", as
opposed to "Jews" & "Christians" because not
all are culpable. However, when the bulk of
those religions support genocide, then the
religions are indeed culpable.
I say the same for Islam supporting denying
rights to to non-Muslims. I say the same
when Scientology persecutes ex-believers.
I say the same when the Catholic Church
enables child sexual abuse.

When churches & theocracies take a stand,
& believer cite scripture to justify it, then
their religion owns the stand taken.

Sorry, but IMO it is absurd to say Christianity supports genocide. It is about loving your enemy and neighbor. That some pervert the teachings, well yeah that happens, unfortunately.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, but IMO it is absurd to say Christianity supports genocide. It is about loving your enemy and neighbor.

That's what they commonly say.
But actions differ.
Many Christians & Jews invoke
their faith to support Israel's
apartheid & genocide.

That some pervert the teachings, well yeah that happens, unfortunately.

When the overwhelming majority in the
3 branches of government comprise
Christians + Jews, & they support Israel
unconditionally, this speaks volumes
about those faiths having a problem with
professed beliefs & actions being inconsistent.
Yet not entirely.

 

[Sargonski]

If true this is horrible but foreseen by Hamas when planning its rape, murder and mutilation of Jews. They sacrifice their own people for the sake of sympathy for their cause thinking that ultimately it will enlist other Muslim states to join forces in the elimination of all Jews from the region.

So, you think Israel can do whatever they want, with no regard to the number of civilian casulties?

Frack .. and frick .. Holy mind blowing mental flip flops in raging desperation to apologize for massive crimes against humanity .. shift the blame from the perpetrators of the crime to some other group who apparently forced the perpetrators into collective punishment of a third group for the crimes the second.

KK -- let us sort through this one .. see if we can find any logical problems errors or fallacies .

Let us begin with a rule of law principle .. "One person not to be punished for the actions of another" .. basis for why "Collective Punishment" is a war crime .. regardless of who or what you claim made you do it. "The Devil Made me Do it" .. in this case the Devil being the rebel Jews who revolted against the Brown Shirts in the Warsaw Ghetto .. the Brown shirts making up all kinds of lies to demonize the filthy -"Unclean" terrorist Jew .. breaking out of the prison .. raping german women.. murder and mutilation .. the "dirty Jew" ..

and -- on this basis we are supposed to figure that the German collective punishment of the Jewish women and children was justified .. that punishment including extermination.. by all kinds of fun methods aye Colt !

Fun Fact --was upwards of 100,000 civilians starved to death in the Warsaw Ghetto by them brown shirts .. using same tactics as Bibi in concentration camp Gaza .. Just substitute "Filthy Jews" for "Filthy Arabs" - demonization ands dehumanization of "The other" don't matter what the name of the target is. --

Fun Fact 2 The Israeli SS never did provide any evidence for the mass rape claim .. in fact not one victim have they produced .. but hey .. who would be silly enough to take anything coming out of mouth of brown shirts seriously .. a demonstrable track record of lying and dirty deeds from the get go. Would be like taking the Pentagon dictates seriously during the Iraq war .. or any war .. it is their job to lie about the wars we conduct for goodness sakes .. exposing those lies the reason Snowdon still languishes in Prison .. massive violation of the founding principle that Genocide Joe and the "USA" is supposedly promoting around the world .. "Rules based order" you know .. Do as we say .. not as we do kind of thing .. thats the rule aye Colt !

 

[icehorse]

So 13,000 children died for a good cause.

War sucks, full stop.

But people who study wars use a ratio of combatants killed to civilians killed to assess how ethically(?) a war is being run. Yes, yes, I know, war still sucks. But I've heard that in this war, the combatants : civilians ratio is probably the best (in terms of minimizing civilian casualties), of any war on record.

In other words, the IDF appears to be doing an outstanding job of minimizing the loss of civilians lives. It still sucks, but war sucks.

 

[Shaul]

No, it's not an example of question begging.

Begging the question - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But the figure is likely much higher for a couple reasons.
- The death toll was at 30,000 before today, & about
half of Palestinians are children.
- The death toll doesn't include bodies not found.

And Israel's new weapon of starvation will increase
that toll, given that children are less able than adults
to cope with starvation.

It was begging the question. The question it begged is whether the UNICEF figure is correct which was stated but never proven.

UNICEF's number was sourced from the Hamas.

"UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell did not provide a source for the child fatality figure during an interview with CBS News.

When asked if Russell was referring to the agency's own estimate or was basing the figure on reporting from authorities in Hamas-governed Gaza, a UNICEF spokesperson pointed to a press statement by the U.N. children's agency that attributed the figure to Gaza's health ministry." ( UNICEF says over 13,000 children killed in Gaza in Israel offensive )

 

[Shaul]

If the number turned out to actually be 11,274, would you feel better?

Unlike others I don't peddle in human flesh.

 

[Revoltingest]

War sucks, full stop.

Especially does genocide & s
tarvation as weapons of "war".

But people who study wars use a ratio of combatants killed to civilians killed to assess how ethically(?) a war is being run. Yes, yes, I know, war still sucks. But I've heard that in this war, the combatants : civilians ratio is probably the best (in terms of minimizing civilian casualties), of any war on record.

In other words, the IDF appears to be doing an outstanding job of minimizing the loss of civilians lives. It still sucks, but war sucks.

You didn't cite the source or ratio that
you find "outstanding".
Do you think that imminent starvation
deaths might increase it?

 

[Revoltingest]

It was begging the question. The question it begged is whether the UNICEF figure is correct which was stated but never proven.

Question begging is a logical fallacy
of assuming a conclusion. What you
should say is "raise a question".

UNICEF's number was sourced from the Hamas.

"UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell did not provide a source for the child fatality figure during an interview with CBS News.

When asked if Russell was referring to the agency's own estimate or was basing the figure on reporting from authorities in Hamas-governed Gaza, a UNICEF spokesperson pointed to a press statement by the U.N. children's agency that attributed the figure to Gaza's health ministry." ( UNICEF says over 13,000 children killed in Gaza in Israel offensive )

Are you just challenging the source,
or do you have a cromlulent alternative
number?