Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[Draka]

You need more than 100 dollars to keep a child per week?

The argument put forth was about women using men to get pregnant to get child support as if that is a way to make a living. To come into a bunch of free money. After diapers formula, clothes, food, possibly daycare (as one would need to work as well to pay the rent, the utilities, gas money and so on) do you really think a woman is truly making out well enough to purposely get pregnant simply for child support? Even if it is $400 a month? And that is a higher number I've seen. Most women I've known have gotten far less. I mentioned a mere $50/month myself.

 

[Draka]

\no. We have been discussing the defintion of "abuse". Keep your responses more honest, eh.


I already have. Have you? Abuse takes many forms, do you understand that yet? Are you still in here with your ad hominem comments

No...YOU'VE been discussing various definitions. WE'VE been discussing one particular definition.

 

[Robert.Evans]

When the topic of conversation is domestic abuse one should not have to continually use the word "domestic" to clarify every single use of the word "abuse". It is implied. Just as if the topic of conversation is "Valentine's Day cards" one should not have to say "Valentine's Day" before every use of the word "card". It would be implied due to the topic of conversation. Sheesh.



Edited due to stupid autocorrect.

We know it is about a domestic abuse, but that was not the definition that we were arguing. Do I have to explain it again.
You seem to think that a screaming argument at one another for years is not abuse and there is no victim, as does Churchill. What the heck else would you call it then? You are arguing over definitions.

 

[Robert.Evans]

No...YOU'VE been discussing various definitions. WE'VE been discussing one particular definition.

No you haven't. and don't try and make out you have!

 

[Draka]

We know it is about a domestic abuse, but that was not the definition that we were arguing. Do I have to explain it again.
You seem to think that a screaming argument at one another for years is not abuse and there is no victim, as does Churchill. What the heck else would you call it then? You are arguing over definitions.

This is getting either exhausting or hilarious, I don't know which. You have been the one arguing definitions this whole time while we have been talking about one thing and trying to get you on the same page.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The argument put forth was about women using men to get pregnant to get child support as if that is a way to make a living. To come into a bunch of free money. After diapers formula, clothes, food, possibly daycare (as one would need to work as well to pay the rent, the utilities, gas money and so on) do you really think a woman is truly making out well enough to purposely get pregnant simply for child support? Even if it is $400 a month? And that is a higher number I've seen. Most women I've known have gotten far less. I mentioned a mere $50/month myself.

So we have an ungodly society and a family unit that doesn't function.... where then are the grandparents? Grandmothers used to hlep.

 

[Draka]

No you haven't. and don't try and make out you have!

Should I just laugh now at the dishonesty or will a simple sad shaking of my head do?

 

[Robert.Evans]

This is getting either exhausting or hilarious, I don't know which. You have been the one arguing definitions this whole time while we have been talking about one thing and trying to get you on the same page.

You have not. Okay, Answer me this, Are there more than one type of abuse? Think carefully now. And if the answer is yes, you are agreeing with me.

 

[Draka]

So we have an ungodly society and a family unit that doesn't function.... where then are the grandparents? Grandmothers used to hlep.

I'm not too sure what this has to do with child support unless you are trying to put forth that it should not be an issue because "grandma!". Which is absurd. Responsibility falls to parents, not grandparents. And even if it did does mean the grandparents (that is both grandfather and grandmother btw) are alive, live close enough, or are in any position to help themselves.

Though again, what this has to do with the argument that women get pregnant on purpose to get child support I have no idea.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Should I just laugh now at the dishonesty or will a simple sad shaking of my head do?

Okay, now you even want to argue about what we were arguing about. (why does this make me think I am arguing with a woman?)
So, redefine then. Give me the argument afresh.

 

[Draka]

You have not. Okay, Answer me this, Are there more than one type of abuse? Think carefully now. And if the answer is yes, you are agreeing with me.

No one had said there aren't different types of abuse. We have pointed out that you using those broadbrush definitions in a discussion about one particular kind of abuse is dishonest. So just because any of us admit there are different kinds of abuse it does not mean we agree with you on the topic of domestic abuse and how it is not "most often not one-sided".

 

[savagewind]

You have not. Okay, Answer me this, Are there more than one type of abuse? Think carefully now. And if the answer is yes, you are agreeing with me.

Nobody is agreeing with you as we see your stance as there is never one abuser abusing one victim. That looks like your side. Nobody has argued that there is only one kind of abuse. YOU say an argument is abusive. Nobody agrees with you.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I'm not too sure what this has to do with child support unless you are trying to put forth that it should not be an issue because "grandma!". Which is absurd. Responsibility falls to parents, not grandparents. And even if it did does mean the grandparents (that is both grandfather and grandmother btw) are alive, live close enough, or are in any position to help themselves.

Though again, what this has to do with the argument that women get pregnant on purpose to get child support I have no idea.

You say you do not have enough money. Childcare is probably the biggest of those. Gparents used to help. Why can't you see the link? And sure, some might not be alive etc, but we are generalising, or do we have to argue about that also?

 

[Robert.Evans]

No one had said there aren't different types of abuse. We have pointed out that you using those broadband definitions in a discussion about one particular kind of abuse is dishonest. So just because any of us admit there are different kinds of abuse it does not mean we agree with you on the topic of domestic abuse and how it is not "most often not one-sided".

You have not done any such thing and just confirms my suspicions

 

[Robert.Evans]

Nobody is agreeing with you as we see your stance as there is never one abuser abusing one victim.

I never said never. What i did is show the other side of the coin. You should never assume someones thoughts, you should ask.

That looks like your side. Nobody has argued that there is only one kind of abuse.

That is all I have heard. Where have you been?

YOU say an argument is abusive. Nobody agrees with you.

So if me and you scream at one another in an argument until we are fit to tear each other to pieces, you can't see any for of abuse there? Really? What planet did you say you were from?
If there is no abuse there then, we don't have to feel sorry for them do we.

 

[Draka]

You say you do not have enough money. Childcare is probably the biggest of those. Gparents used to help. Why can't you see the link? And sure, some might not be alive etc, but we are generalising, or do we have to argue about that also?

I didn't say I didn't have enough money. I was lucky that I made a good enough income myself back then (in military) that his $50 didn't mean too very much to me. As for grandparents I lived many states away at the time. So do many others. And with many older people they are on fixed incomes themselves so cannot help financially. I shouldn't have to explain all this really. It still has nothing to do with the assertion that women get pregnant to milk child support money.

 

[Draka]

You have not done any such thing and just confirms my suspicions

We have repeatedly addressed your broadbrushing. Repeatedly tried to get you on topic. That you say you can't see this only proves you truly are not paying attention.

 

[savagewind]

I never said never. What i did is show the other side of the coin. You should never assume someones thoughts, you should ask.

I think you assumed only you can see the other side of the coin. Like I said, it is obvious so to post the obvious means to me it is the more important side according to you. In this discussion, it is the less important side.

That is all I have heard. Where have you been?

So if me and you scream at one another in an argument until we are fit to tear each other to pieces, you can't see any for of abuse there? Really? What planet did you say you were from?
If there is no abuse there then, we don't have to feel sorry for them do we.

An argument can be considered abusive only when insults start flying. Yelling is not abusive. Yelling is a physical mechanism that for some people can't be controlled.

 

[cocolia42]

This^^^
I've seen similar scenarios play out all too commonly.
Because women "have the power", in the USA, when it comes to child raising. Women can off their progeny if they want to, it doesn't matter what the father wants. And if they decide not to they can demand child support, doesn't matter what the father wants. They don't always get it, but the law is on their side.
Tom

I hate this. I think the father should have the same rights - if that's the right word for it.
I mean, if a woman can decide to abort her child despite the father wanting to keep it, then why can't a man walk away from all responsibility for that child if the mother decides to keep it?
Or if we're going to say the father must take responsibility for the child, then he should be able to prevent the mother from getting an abortion and he should get full custody of that child.

 

[cocolia42]

Let me provide another side to this. There are men who are known as reproductive abusers. They purposefully get women pregnant by pricking a hole in the condom. Or it 'falls off', most likely be removed by the man in the middle of coitus. And as a woman who had her children taken away from me by a the man who beat the merde out of me for years and then had the cahones to blame ME for my daughter's rape, you have no idea how many times this kind of thing has happened to women by men still walking on all fours and carrying a #E(*$(# club. Yes, what you write does happen but let's not make this all about how reprehensible all women are, or at least, that is how your post seems to paint women to be.

MY post doesn't paint women to be any way. My post was the other side. I was replying to the comment that men take advantage of women.