Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[Draka]

It is murder. We just choose to call it something else for the sake of the act, much like war.

Hypothetical that is all too true for some women...

A pregnant lady finds out that her pregnancy is causing severe medical issues and trauma for her. It is life threatening. There is no possible way she could survive the pregnancy. Is the fetus then committing murder? If neither the woman nor the fetus would survive, is the fetus guilty of murder-suicide? If the woman is told she must have a D&C to end the pregnancy in order to survive is that not self-defense?

Please address each point, not just the last one.

 

[savagewind]

That wasn't what I meant, and I don't think it is what OP meant either.
I mean the father raising the child from birth without the mother. I realise that women sometimes die in childbirth.
But I don't think that is what @paarsurrey meant either. I'm not sure what he was really asking about because the OP was vague, given USA culture.

I did have an interesting conversation with my partner Doug on this subject. According to him, the murky state of US parentage is even worse than I thought.
Tom

I agree with you. I was emphasizing the point that many single men are raising children but not because the mother abandoned them.

 

[Draka]

I agree with you. I was emphasizing the point that many single men are raising children but not because the mother abandoned them.

Did you know that there are online registries where fathers can sign up to be informed of any attempt to put their child up for adoption so that they may fight it and sue for custody? The concept that a woman may put up a baby for adoption without notification to the father is not only "not unheard of" but actually more prevalent than one might think. Many times a woman may claim that the man abandoned her when that isn't the case at all. Whether through family pressure or her own doubts about a relationship, some women will adopt out a baby in order to cut ties with a man that may full well want a chance to raise his own child. The fact that there are registries in place for this speaks volumes. And really, father's rights advocates have said that there are far more men that lose out on parental rights than ever need be simply because they don't know about said registries. Many "single" women adopt out their children without even a notification to the father, many times the men aren't even made aware that a pregnancy even happened. Men that just may have been more than willing to take in and raise their child.

 

[columbus]

I agree with you. I was emphasizing the point that many single men are raising children but not because the mother abandoned them.

I know.
But somewhere back their someone posted a statistic putting the number of widowed fathers at under 5% of single dads, but 33% of single dads as never married.
Tom

 

[JoStories]

You don't have to stop with someone who is abusive, whichever way it works (male/female). Even Paul shows that. Everything is dependent on the keeping the law in the first place. If the man is not, the woman is not bound by the man. How can she be. He would be a lawbreaker.

I have no clue what you mean by 'have to stop with someone'. Am I to assume you mean remain married? If so, it was people of your faith telling me I had to remain married as it was my duty as his wife. Which is horse pucky.

 

[Robert.Evans]

If according to you a woman is joined to the first man she is with then Jesus was not telling the truth saying, ""correctly you have spoken, "I have no husband"", unless he was dead. He might be dead. And you are right that husband is translated from ἄνδρα which means man. Which is another example of Bible tampering. Thank you for exposing that one.

But by Mosaic law, adultery was grounds for annulment of marriage. So she had no husband. Right?

 

[JoStories]

What I am saying is that God is fact. I do not have to show that to you or anyone to make it fact. I have a clock in my room. That is fact. None of you know it, see it, or ever will. It is still fact. It is fact because it is true. It is fact because it is known. You think that it must be able to be proved to others then? And that I assume is because you are thinking with a materialistic mind, which will limit you immediately. But if your question is show me God, then one day you will see him. But that is up to him, not me. But it is still fact. We know that through the spirit of his son that he freely gives us.

If I were to come to your home, you would be able to point to that clock on your wall. Since you cannot do that with God, God remains belief and not fact. You are free to think its fact but that is your opinion and it is an opinion which you cannot prove. That has nothing to do with materialism. It is observable fact.

 

[Robert.Evans]

i could say the same about the rain God named Bob.

Ciao

- viole

You could certainly "say it". But unless you are going to lie, then you would not. Neither will I lie and say it is an opinion, though you are free to think it is just an opinion if you like/

 

[Robert.Evans]

No, you really can't. As your personal religious beliefs have no effect upon me or my life, nor anyone else's. Just your own.

Please don't. It is all rather disgusting and offensive.

'Disgusting, Offensive'? No, I don't think so. I think we might make wiser choices and bring up and look after people better as a society if we thought something was wrong however. Abuse, whatever it might be, is not usually onesided.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Hypothetical that is all too true for some women...

A pregnant lady finds out that her pregnancy is causing severe medical issues and trauma for her. It is life threatening. There is no possible way she could survive the pregnancy. Is the fetus then committing murder? If neither the woman nor the fetus would survive, is the fetus guilty of murder-suicide? If the woman is told she must have a D&C to end the pregnancy in order to survive is that not self-defense?


Please address each point, not just the last one.

Well I think for one you are over reacting. But if you are saying there are cases where you might have to abort to save the woman's life, then fine. Why did you find it necessary to ask such a thing?

 

[viole]

You could certainly "say it". But unless you are going to lie, then you would not. Neither will I lie and say it is an opinion, though you are free to think it is just an opinion if you like/

Even if you do not lie, that does not entail that it is not an opinion. To turn it into a fact takes vastly more than your honesty.

Since when not lying about X, entails that X is a fact?

I am sure that people who claimed to have been abducted by aliens, or the people who sacrificed their families because they were dead sure to get a hitchhike on a starship hiding behind a comet, were not lying.

Does that make their honest statement a fact?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Draka]

'Disgusting, Offensive'? No, I don't think so. I think we might make wiser choices and bring up and look after people better as a society if we thought something was wrong however. Abuse, whatever it might be, is not usually onesided.

Are you somehow saying I brought it upon myself? I deserved to be beaten? I made him do it?

No, I was most certainly correct to begin with...disgusting and offensive.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I have no clue what you mean by 'have to stop with someone'. Am I to assume you mean remain married? If so, it was people of your faith telling me I had to remain married as it was my duty as his wife. Which is horse pucky.

I doubt they are of my faith. I thought the post was clear. You do not have to take physical abuse, that would also include mental, including to the man; assuming that attempts have been made to reconcile and seek help

 

[Draka]

Well I think for one you are over reacting. But if you are saying there are cases where you might have to abort to save the woman's life, then fine. Why did you find it necessary to ask such a thing?

See, you didn't address each point did you? And I am not over-reacting, those cases exist all the time. I am going by your definitions. Murder is killing, killing is murder right? Killing is wrong, it is a sin, no matter what. So, is a fetus a killer if it kills the mother to carry it? Is she a killer for aborting it to save her life?

 

[Robert.Evans]

If I were to come to your home, you would be able to point to that clock on your wall. Since you cannot do that with God, God remains belief and not fact. You are free to think its fact but that is your opinion and it is an opinion which you cannot prove. That has nothing to do with materialism. It is observable fact.

Observable fact is materialism.
I have given an example that I will give again: i can write something on a piece of paper, and then destroy the paper. No one knows what was on it but me. That is fact. It is not any less fact because I cannot show it to you. It is fact because I know. You may call it opinion yourself as there is little else you can do. You see it from your own point of view. But it lessens it not... it is still fact.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Even if you do not lie, that does not entail that it is not an opinion. To turn it into a fact takes vastly more than your honesty.



- viole

Yes sure, it means you have to know. I know. So it is fact.
Just because you can't see it does not mean it is not fact.
You cannot think of something that is fact that you know that no one else does and never will? You cannot think of an example ? You don't think something is fact until someone sees it? Did gravity not exist then before we knew it?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Are you somehow saying I brought it upon myself? I deserved to be beaten? I made him do it?

No, I was most certainly correct to begin with...disgusting and offensive.

I am not someone saying that no. But if you want to discuss it, then fine. But don't label me with things that are not true.

 

[Robert.Evans]

See, you didn't address each point did you? And I am not over-reacting, those cases exist all the time. I am going by your definitions. Murder is killing, killing is murder right?

You should not kill is what I am saying. You seem to think it is okay in some instances.
[/QUOTE]
Killing is wrong, it is a sin, no matter what.
[/QUOTE]
I will go with the basic question and say yes. So , we move on..........

So, is a fetus a killer if it kills the mother to carry it?

If you want to take it to that extreme, and if the fetus was in fact the reason the mother died, the fetus killed.

Is she a killer for aborting it to save her life?

She would be killing yes. But we are now giving concessions in an inperfect world. That takes us back to what I have already said. It makes more sense to keep the adult alive that is conscious. Will that do? Has that answered it?

 

[Draka]

I am not someone saying that no. But if you want to discuss it, then fine. But don't label me with things that are not true.

Why not? You've been saying untrue things this whole time.

What is and is not "fact" and so on and so forth. Never admitting your beliefs and opinions are just that, belief and opinion. Never seeing how vile and abhorrent the claims you make are, defending them as being "facts" when they are simply nothing more than your personal interpretation of one religion's scripture and mythology.

 

[Draka]

If you want to take it to that extreme, and if the fetus was in fact the reason the mother died, the fetus killed.

She would be killing yes. But we are now giving concessions in an inperfect world. That takes us back to what I have already said. It makes more sense to keep the adult alive that is conscious. Will that do? Has that answered it?

Now, does the fetus get punished by your god for killing its mother? Does the mother for defending herself?