Does race exist?

[Revoltingest]

I associate eye folds with increased insulation, which have started multiple places independently, and the warmest is probably aided by the fact that eyes folds exist from Scandinavia to South East Asia to Inuits.

Individuals are a mix of billions of traits. The permutations are endless. The rate of mutation and adaption in which every generation of people a new unique blend of genes is created yet again. Never have human populations gone through so much genetic drift.

But people don't trace their ancestor by their skin color, or the extra amount fat that helps cover the tear ducts. Markers that are generally used to trace lineage don't really have anything to do with noticeable phenotypes.

Ultimately, we will find that a great many people (perhaps the majority) will identify as one race or another, or an identifiable mixture. Whether this is called arbitrary or not, whether it's more or less science based, race still exists.

 

[George-ananda]

The cause of this is a reduction in the size of our molars, and this may have been caused by the fact that we cook most of our food which softens it, thus wearing down the molars less.

What I don't understand is how this process works. I can understand how softer food requires less robust teeth, but I don't understand how this can cause evolutionary change in a species. People with larger molars are still going to live and reproduce without problems. So how does this produce genetic change in a species?

 

[fantome profane]

What I don't understand is how this process works. I can understand how softer food requires less robust teeth, but I don't understand how this can cause evolutionary change in a species. People with larger molars are still going to live and reproduce without problems. So how does this produce genetic change in a species?

Generally anytime you don't need to spend your resources to build or maintain something that is an advantage.

 

[George-ananda]

Generally anytime you don't need to spend your resources to build or maintain something that is an advantage.

But how does that affect future generations? Are we saying that in earlier history people that happened to be born with small molars would die before reproducing themselves because they weren't successful at getting the nutrition for survival with small molars?

How does not needing to spend resources to build molars cause genes to change?

 

[Kirran]

Ultimately, we will find that a great many people (perhaps the majority) will identify as one race or another, or an identifiable mixture. Whether this is called arbitrary or not, whether it's more or less science based, race still exists.

True, it exists. In the same way nationality exists

 

[Kirran]

I associate eye folds with increased insulation, which have started multiple places independently, and the warmest is probably aided by the fact that eyes folds exist from Scandinavia to South East Asia to Inuits.

Individuals are a mix of billions of traits. The permutations are endless. The rate of mutation and adaption in which every generation of people a new unique blend of genes is created yet again. Never have human populations gone through so much genetic drift.

But people don't trace their ancestor by their skin color, or the extra amount fat that helps cover the tear ducts. Markers that are generally used to trace lineage don't really have anything to do with noticeable phenotypes.

On eye folds, current thought, last I read, was that originally everybody had eye folds, and foldless eyes evolved later and spread, aside from to a few populations.

 

[Revoltingest]

True, it exists. In the same way nationality exists

True dat.
Those Canuckistanians are so identifiable when they sneak down here.....
Poutine breath, maple syrup stained toques, & always saying "hoser" & "eh".

 

[Kirran]

True dat.
Those Canuckistanians are so identifiable when they sneak down here.....
Poutine breath, maple syrup stained toques, & always saying "hoser" & "eh".

Genetically defined traits, I'm sure

 

[metis]

What I don't understand is how this process works. I can understand how softer food requires less robust teeth, but I don't understand how this can cause evolutionary change in a species. People with larger molars are still going to live and reproduce without problems. So how does this produce genetic change in a species?

Hard to say for sure. What may have happened is that those with smaller molars in the distant past could all too easily develop tooth decay and/or loss of enamel because of all the roughage and grit, but when we better learned to wash and cook food, that changed, thus allowing for smaller teeth with less enamel. Therefore, those born with the latter could survive whereas on the distant past it would have been more difficult. Either way, we do know that the size of our muzzle decreased over millions of years.

 

[George-ananda]

Hard to say for sure.

This evolution thing (which I believe in) still seems mysterious in a lot of these ways....how such great things happen only under the forces currently accepted by science.....yes, I'm hinting that physical evolution occurred but there is more to the story.

 

[gnomon]

Eye folds do not support the concept of distinct racial ideals as race has been classically defined.

A better argument would have been skin color.....but that has been shown to be false as well.

 

[dust1n]

Ultimately, we will find that a great many people (perhaps the majority) will identify as one race or another, or an identifiable mixture. Whether this is called arbitrary or not, whether it's more or less science based, race still exists.

That I would agree on. Race exists, but is wholly arbitrary and is basically non-science-based. Much like how I go about choosing what color finger nail polish to apply. When the census asks what race I am, I check the box next to White / Caucasian, because I understand that my skin is white, and that I am supposedly Caucasian, despite the fact that there is no such thing, other than the fact that a couple Germans thought the whole world could be described as three human races.

 

[dust1n]

On eye folds, current thought, last I read, was that originally everybody had eye folds, and foldless eyes evolved later and spread, aside from to a few populations.

All folks have eyes folds in gestation.

 

[Revoltingest]

That I would agree on. Race exists, but is wholly arbitrary and is basically non-science-based. Much like how I go about choosing what color finger nail polish to apply. When the census asks what race I am, I check the box next to White / Caucasian, because I understand that my skin is white, and that I am supposedly Caucasian, despite the fact that there is no such thing, other than the fact that a couple Germans thought the whole world could be described as three human races.

Even defining "species" or any other grouping is ultimately arbitrary.
But humans like to organize things into groups.

 

[dust1n]

Even defining "species" or any other grouping is ultimately arbitrary.
But humans like to organize things into groups.

It's true. However, as cloudy as species is, it's generally based on a meaningful phenomenon, that which that sexual reproduce with another. Harder to apply to the smaller word and plant world, where 40% of the entire DNA might be changed in reproduction, as opposed to 99.9%, and there is far more usefulness to making some sort of structure to parsing out the billions of organisms that we are aware of, and the many, many more to yet be discovered, as opposed to segmenting the world in 3 segments essentially by skin hue then general location, which, as far as I can tell, as never really done most people in the world any favors, let alone further understanding of biology in general.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's true. However, as cloudy as species is, it's generally based on a meaningful phenomenon, that which that sexual reproduce with another.

Even that isn't so simple....
Species - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dust1n]

Even that isn't so simple....
Species - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course. It's far more complicated than even Wikipedia will enumerate on. Like I said, the microworld doesn't really do "species" as much as they do continuum.

But there are is a reason it's called the species problem, and there isn't a Caucasian problem; because it's actually important, is centered on a useful organization of things that people actually need access to; as opposed to what hue someone's skin is, which anyone can verify visually, and doesn't really you tell you anything about anything other than the hue is different.

 

[fantome profane]

But how does that affect future generations? Are we saying that in earlier history people that happened to be born with small molars would die before reproducing themselves because they weren't successful at getting the nutrition for survival with small molars?

How does not needing to spend resources to build molars cause genes to change?

It doesn't cause genes to change, but it doesn't need to cause genes to change to affect future generations. All it needs to change is the frequency of certain genes in a population over time. That is it, that is evolution.

So if smaller molars were a disadvantage in the past, then the frequency of the gene (or genes) that lead to smaller molars would be kept at a low frequency. And if conditions change so that small molars are no longer such a disadvantage then the frequency of those genes in the population will rise. That's it. It's evolution 101.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course. It's far more complicated than even Wikipedia will enumerate on. Like I said, the microworld doesn't really do "species" as much as they do continuum.

But there are is a reason it's called the species problem, and there isn't a Caucasian problem; because it's actually important, is centered on a useful organization of things that people actually need access to; as opposed to what hue someone's skin is, which anyone can verify visually, and doesn't really you tell you anything about anything other than the hue is different.

It does tell you about the likelihood of some other traits.
If you're an Amerindian, I can predict that you're lactose intolerant.
If you're northern European, I can predict that you're not.

 

[metis]

This evolution thing (which I believe in) still seems mysterious in a lot of these ways....how such great things happen only under the forces currently accepted by science.....yes, I'm hinting that physical evolution occurred but there is more to the story.

There's always "more to the story" when dealing with both anthropology or any history. Both are sorta like dealing with a good mystery novel whereas there's often only hints as to what actually happened. This creates and atmosphere in either field as being both exciting and nauseating at the same time.