I see no value in atheism

[Quagmire]

Just as the prefix 'A' denotes "without" or "not", as in the word "atheism" which means "without belief in God" or "not theistic".

Yes, it makes sense that the word itself would be designed to encompass all possible definitions.

Problem is that most dictionaries, encyclopedias, and people who are genuinely interested in being able to communicate with each other typically focus on a words primary connotations rather then it's literal denotation.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is not entirely true. In Buddhism, its called bhava which is the Sanskrit word for 'rebirth'. Some Buddhists believe we are reborn, (NOT the same notion as Christian reborn) into what form we choose, and that can include animal. The process of being born over and over is called 'Samsara', also Sankrit. It has less to do with being reborn over and over but rather more about the evolving consciousness. The soul is attempting enlightenment. I think the trouble comes of a misunderstanding of the two terms; reincarnation and rebirth. By attempting to live the Four Noble Truths, reaching toward Bodhi, which means awakening, one can break from, eventually, from Samsara. (What Buddhism teaches, B. O'Brien, 2015)

Tell me how it goes. Best of luck.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Mahayana and Tibetan Buddhism teach rebirth...and all sects teach of the three forms of Buddha...Nirmana-kaya, Dharma-kaya,. and Samboga-kaya..

Buddhist Schools: A Comparative Study of the Schools

Yes. The three aspects of personality.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes, it makes sense that the word itself would be designed to encompass all possible definitions.

Problem is that most dictionaries, encyclopedias, and people who are genuinely interested in being able to communicate with each other typically focus on a words primary connotations rather then it's literal denotation.

And both a connotation and the denotation of atheism are "a lack of belief in a God". I fail to see the issue.

 

[JoStories]

But, if we don't provide definitions of terms, how can we discuss what they actually mean? It would all just be up to everyone's own preference.

Agreed. There has to be a basic defintion that most concur with. But as I said, depending on several factors, those can change. And given that this form is multi cultural, including languages being difficult for some, meaning English, there can be various understandings.

 

[Quagmire]

And both a connotation and the denotation and atheism are "a lack of belief in a God".

Not sure what that sentence was supposed to mean.

I fail to see the issue.

I can see that.

 

[ArtieE]

Here's what came up for me:

Here's what comes up for me first when I Google disbelief definition. Notice "lack of belief". Atheism is even a synonym for "lack of faith".

disbelief
dɪsbɪˈliːf/
noun

1. inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
   "Laura shook her head in disbelief"
   synonyms: incredulity, incredulousness, lack of belief, lack of credence, lack of conviction, scepticism, doubt, doubtfulness, dubiety, dubiousness,questioning, cynicism, suspicion, distrust, mistrust, wariness, chariness;More
   • lack of faith.
     "I'll burn in hell for disbelief"
     synonyms: atheism, unbelief, godlessness, ungodliness, impiety, irreligion,agnosticism, nihilism
     "I'll burn in hell for disbelief"

 

[leibowde84]

Knowledge is true belief of things, that is belief of things that happen to be true.

And how can we "know" something is true. What is the defining factor?

 

[leibowde84]

Agreed. There has to be a basic defintion that most concur with. But as I said, depending on several factors, those can change. And given that this form is multi cultural, including languages being difficult for some, meaning English, there can be various understandings.

My concern is that people are hijacking the general term "atheist" and redefining it so as to more easily attack anyone who doesn't believe in God. If they redefine the term as having a positive belief that God does not exist, it is distorting what an atheist is into a much more declarative position, declaring that atheism is a world view, when it certainly is not. Strong atheism is, but not agnosticism and weak atheism. They are simply defined as a lacking of certain beliefs.

 

[paarsurrey]

Atheism is a disbelief in gods. But since these babies would not even have any disbelief at all since they are not even aware that there is no god for them to develop any sense of disbelief in the first place, then I don't think they would even be atheists.

I agree that by nature one is theist.

Regards

 

[Quagmire]

Here's what comes up for me first when I Google disbelief definition. Notice "lack of belief". Atheism is even a synonym for "lack of faith".

disbelief
dɪsbɪˈliːf/
noun

1. inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
   "Laura shook her head in disbelief"
   synonyms: incredulity, incredulousness, lack of belief, lack of credence, lack of conviction, scepticism, doubt, doubtfulness, dubiety, dubiousness,questioning, cynicism, suspicion, distrust, mistrust, wariness, chariness;More
   • lack of faith.
     "I'll burn in hell for disbelief"
     synonyms: atheism, unbelief, godlessness, ungodliness, impiety, irreligion,agnosticism, nihilism
     "I'll burn in hell for disbelief"

Can you post the link? Because I'm still getting this:

dis·be·lief
ˌdisbəˈlēf/
noun
noun: disbelief

1. inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
   "Laura shook her head in disbelief"
   synonyms: incredulity, astonishment, amazement, surprise, incredulousness;
   skepticism, doubt, doubtfulness, dubiousness;
   cynicism, suspicion, distrust, mistrust;
   formaldubiety
   "she stared at him in disbelief"
   • lack of faith in something.
     "I'll burn in hell for disbelief"
     synonyms: atheism, nonbelief, unbelief, godlessness, irreligion, agnosticism, nihilism
     "in the film religious faith and disbelief are interwoven"

https://www.google.com/search?q=disbelief+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

In any case, even if we accept your version: synonyms aren't exactly the same thing as definitions. For the most part, they're only applicable in certain cases. For instance, look at the definition along with the synonyms for "Dog":

dog
dôɡ/
noun
noun: dog; plural noun: dogs
1.
a domesticated carnivorous mammal that typically has a long snout, an acute sense of smell, and a barking, howling, or whining voice. It is widely kept as a pet or for work or field sports.
synonyms: hound, canine;
mongrel, mutt, cur;
pup, puppy;
informaldoggy/doggie, pooch, furball, man's best friend
"she went for a walk with her dog"
dôɡ/
https://www.google.com/search?q=disbelief+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=dog,+synynm
______________________

If you'll notice, only one of the synonyms on the list, "canine", is universally applicable. The rest refer to a dog of a specific kind: not all dogs are puppies, or hounds, mongrels, or curs.

In the version "disbelief definition" I'm getting, "lack of faith" is there as a synonym, but it's fairly far down the list, and dictionaries do tend to list definitions and synonyms in the order or relavancy.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Barbra O'Brien? That explains a few things.

 

[ArtieE]

Can you post the link? Because I'm still getting this:

dis·be·lief
ˌdisbəˈlēf/
noun
noun: disbelief

1. inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
   "Laura shook her head in disbelief"
   synonyms: incredulity, astonishment, amazement, surprise, incredulousness;
   skepticism, doubt, doubtfulness, dubiousness;
   cynicism, suspicion, distrust, mistrust;
   formaldubiety
   "she stared at him in disbelief"
   • lack of faith in something.
     "I'll burn in hell for disbelief"
     synonyms: atheism, nonbelief, unbelief, godlessness, irreligion, agnosticism, nihilism
     "in the film religious faith and disbelief are interwoven"

https://www.google.com/search?q=disbelief+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

When I go to this link I get what I copied... no idea what's going on.

If you'll notice, only one of the synonyms on the list, "canine", is universally applicable. The rest refer to a dog of a specific kind: not all dogs are puppies, or hounds, mongrels, or curs.

In the version "disbelief definition" I'm getting, "lack of faith" is there as a synonym, but it's fairly far down the list, and dictionaries do tend to list definitions and synonyms in the order or relavancy.

I don't think there's much point in discussion how far up or down on a list something is. The first sentence in RationalWiki on atheism is "Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods." Atheism - RationalWiki I'll just stick with that definition for the time being.

 

[Quagmire]

When I go to this link I get what I copied... no idea what's going on.I don't think there's much point in discussion how far up or down on a list something is. The first sentence in RationalWiki on atheism is "Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods." Atheism - RationalWiki I'll just stick with that definition for the time being.

Okie doke.

Kind of wish you'd have said that in the first place and saved me a lot of typing though.

 

[outhouse]

Its like the statement.

An implicit atheist, cannot say he is an atheist. Or he becomes explicit.

Once one admits he is an atheist, and a conscious decision has been made not to believe, its hard to claim lack of belief. When you did at one point have one.


That's what I forgot and now remembered

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The first sentence in RationalWiki on atheism is "Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods." Atheism - RationalWiki I'll just stick with that definition for the time being.

"Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods."

What is implicit in this definition of the meaning of the concept of atheism is that an atheist believes in no gods... It's not as though an atheist does not form an idea in their mind as to what the concept of god means to them, they do......but rather than believe this idea to be true, the believe it is not true...

Furthermore, this idea of god that an atheist believes not to exist, may not be, and most likely isn't, the same idea of god as held by other atheists, and for that matter among theists...and definitely among non-dualists...

 

[Willamena]

And how can we "know" something is true. What is the defining factor?

The question makes no sense. Something true is known.

You've essentially asked how can something true be true. What is is.

 

[leibowde84]

The question makes no sense. Something true is known.

You've essentially asked how can something true be true. What is is.

Nope. I'm asking how can you know something is true?

 

[kepha31]

Nope. I'm asking how can you know something is true?

We know something is true by direct observation or by the testimony of others.

Religious faith in the reasonable and Catholic sense is an extension or application to the spiritual world of an ordinary intellectual process which all exercise daily, and without the exercise of which our lives as social beings would be impossible. This process consists in assenting to the truth of propositions on the testimony of others. We may acquire knowledge in two ways - either by direct observation (you see a man knocked down by a car in the street), or through the testimony of others (you read an account of the accident in the evening paper, or learn it from a friend).

The last intellectual operation, whereby we assent to the truth of facts (which are, perhaps, beyond the reach of our own observation) because other men testify to their truth, plays an incessant part in our lives. It is in this way most of our knowledge comes to us - on the authority of others. If you reflect on the method whereby people as a rule acquire scientific, geographical, historical, philosophical knowledge, or if you think of the part which books and newspapers play in our lives, you will, I think, admit the truth of what I say. We each of us investigate a very small portion of the earth's surface on which we live - namely, the part traversed by the tiny track of our perambulations through life. All the other knowledge we have of the world - or of the universe - rests on the testimony of others. That's what all education amounts to: the testimony of others.

Now, who will say that such faith, such willingness to accept testimony, is unscientific, or unworthy of a rational being? Who will suggest that it is not based on sound intellectual principles? It may not be easy for you to trace the process whereby you have come to believe without any doubt in the existence of Jupiter's satellites, or of icebergs in the Antarctic, or of Hitler or Mussolini. The evidence has come through many almost imperceptible channels, but is such that it excludes all doubt from your mind. If you analyze the process, it comes to this: You convince yourself by direct examination or reasoning of the reliability of the witness; then you accept his testimony as true.

Two things must be clear to you about the witness -
(1) That he had ample opportunity to learn the facts;
(2) that he is telling the truth.

In other words, that he is not deceived himself, nor wants to deceive you. In a court of law, the judge and jury must test these two points:
Is the witness truthful?
Has he knowledge of the facts?
Once they are convinced of these two things, then they accept his evidence, and believe his statements to be true.

To a Catholic believer Faith is just this process. It is not conjecture, nor is it credulity. It means assenting to the truth of certain facts on the evidence of a reliable witness, the witness in this case being God Himself. That the facts (e.g., the Trinity, Incarnation, the Real Presence ) are beyond our ken and cannot be directly tested by us is no more a difficulty to our accepting them (when the evidence is sufficient) than my inability to investigate directly the murder of Julius Caesar or the execution of Mary Queen of Scots militates against my belief that these two eminent persons met with violent deaths.

To put it another way, assenting to the truth of Julius Caesar's murder, or Mary Queen of Scots execution is not difficult for me to accept as true (even though I have not personally observed these events). This is because assenting to the truth of certain facts comes to us by the testimony of others.

Such faith, such willingness to accept testimony, is scientific, and worthy of a rational being. It is based on sound intellectual principles, contrary to the constant drumbeat that all faith is blind acceptance, credulity or sentimentalism.

(gleaned from a paper by Fr. Albert Power S.J. 1960, not available on line)

 

[Curious George]

My concern is that people are hijacking the general term "atheist" and redefining it so as to more easily attack anyone who doesn't believe in God. If they redefine the term as having a positive belief that God does not exist, it is distorting what an atheist is into a much more declarative position, declaring that atheism is a world view, when it certainly is not. Strong atheism is, but not agnosticism and weak atheism. They are simply defined as a lacking of certain beliefs.

No atheism is not a worldview, but it is certainly a part of it.