Zen without Buddhism?

[Twilight Hue]

Crooked Cucumber and the Wanderling. :0)

 

[Ferne]

I PM'd Ferne about the website for my own interest, and as he can't post the link, I'm doing so on his request for the benefit of the thread.
Thanks Ferne!

You're welcome

I would give you a frubal if I had any idea what they were and how to do it

 

[DreadFish]

You're welcome

I would give you a frubal if I had any idea what they were and how to do it

The little silver scales next to the red boardered (!) icon in the top right corner of the post you want to frubal.

 

[Ferne]

The little silver scales next to the red boardered (!) icon in the top right corner of the post you want to frubal.

The frubals have been administered!

 

[Ferne]

Zen Mind Beginners Mind is excellent. I have a copy as well. Brad Warner can also relate well with those unfamiliar with Zen with but in mentioning I do get funny looks sometimes whenever I recommend his books. *grin*

lol I read his hardcore zen from the library a while ago which I thought was quite amusing. When I go to pick up Zen Mind Beginners Mind today I will check to see if that book is around as well. I'm pretty sure I've come across a blog/website of his as well.

Also the matter of disclosure of dokusan in three pillars has to do mainly with breaking of tradition whereas such disclosures might present an impediment, as those privy to the exchanges might emulate the relayed experiences during dokusan themselves. Personally I don't see how in light that such experiences are unique. Yet I see the pros and cons of such disclosures. All exchanges were consensual as far as the disclosures are concerned.

Ah, I see, that's interesting. That was actually one reason I didn't read that section as I didn't want to influence myself in any way although it may just be a case of me being overcautious.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Warners best books imo are Hardcore and Sit Down and Shut Up of which the latter more directly deals with Zen practice and techniques. Genjo Koan (I think chapter 4) helped immensely by which one can better approach the writings of Dogen. In my case, Shunryu Suzuki's and Brad Warner's works have helped much by way of introduction and avoided the feel good fluff you find so prevalent today on the bookstore shelf with a Zen label attached to it.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Seeing the way this thread is going, I'd have to recommend Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, edited by Paul Reps and Nyogen Senzaki. It's a great collection of ancient Zen texts, with no commentary, just put out as they are for our perusal.

 

[Ferne]

Warners best books imo are Hardcore and Sit Down and Shut Up of which the latter more directly deals with Zen practice and techniques. Genjo Koan (I think chapter 4) helped immensely by which one can better approach the writings of Dogen. In my case, Shunryu Suzuki's and Brad Warner's works have helped much by way of introduction and avoided the feel good fluff you find so prevalent today on the bookstore shelf with a Zen label attached to it.

That's interesting, I will keep an eye out for Warner's books.

Seeing the way this thread is going, I'd have to recommend Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, edited by Paul Reps and Nyogen Senzaki. It's a great collection of ancient Zen texts, with no commentary, just put out as they are for our perusal.

Yes, that's a great book, IMO I used to own it ages ago. I've always enjoyed koans.

 

[no-body]

As usual I will recommend Alan Watts. Though he talks about a lot of different topics this is one he spoke about a lot. He describes himself as a "zennist" rather than a Zen Buddhist.

 

[Ferne]

Thanks. I think I've come across him on youtube. He looked interesting.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Alan Watts was pretty knowledgeable on Eastern religions, and had a particular affinity towards Zen and Taoism. I'm not a particularly big fan of his, after reading a book he wrote where he sort of thought drug usage to achieve different states of consciousness could be a good thing. But I wouldn't dismiss him outright, he still knows his stuff when it comes to Zen.

 

[DreadFish]

Alan Watts was pretty knowledgeable on Eastern religions, and had a particular affinity towards Zen and Taoism. I'm not a particularly big fan of his, after reading a book he wrote where he sort of thought drug usage to achieve different states of consciousness could be a good thing. But I wouldn't dismiss him outright, he still knows his stuff when it comes to Zen.

I could agree with him to a point. Obviously im not representing other Buddhists when I say, I do believe in the use of entheogens.

But, entheogens are like training wheels. There is a point when you have to take them off or you'll never grow up.

 

[Ferne]

Hi everyone. I was just rereading this thread and wanted to say thanks again to everyone for all the input. I ended up reading Suzuki several times this year and greatly enjoyed him: it was exactly the kind of book I was looking for. I still practice sitting and walking meditation everyday.

Interestingly, but not surprisingly perhaps, I ended up drifting into Taoism as well in large part due to him. I think Suzuki fits quite well with it in my limited understanding of both.

Here's a couple of great youtube videos related to Suzuki which I'm sure most of you have seen before but I'll put on anyway for people who haven't:

[youtube]fyp4pxbTkqo[/youtube]
Present! - Zen Failure - YouTube


[youtube]w7umcFZEb7c[/youtube]
Present! - Talks of Shunryu Suzuki Roshi at Tassajara Zen Mountain Center - YouTube

 

[Secret Chief]

I would also recommend Suzuki and Warner.

In light of the OP, The Tao of Zen by Ray Grigg may be of interest. The title says it all, really!

 

[Ferne]

I would also recommend Suzuki and Warner.

In light of the OP, The Tao of Zen by Ray Grigg may be of interest. The title says it all, really!

Thanks I had a quick look on Amazon for The Tao of Zen and it looked quite cool.