Your understanding of the difference of sufism vs Islam

[Metempsychosis]

Jihad means to try. This is the reason I asked you to quote the Qur'an. And mate, Muslims know this very well. It seems like the Anti Muslim apologist dont know anything about it.

Now you say you know enough about Islam but your source of knowledge is "Good Muslim Friends". And you turn it into "Crazy Jihadi" etc etc and you superimpose that to the so called "Al anfal" and deviate to more hate spreading.

Mate. you are wrong. Try to get a better source of knowledge.

See,if I am wrong and you are correct,then good for us.I get know know good and bad of Islam.

 

[Metempsychosis]

So you brought in a common apologetic. No worries. So wine is available in Jannah.

You are deviating from your original claim which was ignorant. Aren't you? Didnt you simply deviate? Whats your purpose? Whats your agenda? Do you intend to simply spread hatred for Muslims and Islam?

Please clarify.

I didn't deviate,it is said there is restriction of alcohol in Islam for worldly life but in jannat that restriction is not there.If that is wrong,you can tell us what is right.

 

[Truthseeker]

I see. I misunderstood him.

No problem. It would be easy to misunderstand him without my knowledge of Sufism.

 

[firedragon]

See,if I am wrong and you are correct,then good for us.I get know know good and bad of Islam.

When you are doing criticism, study the subject thoroughly, or ask questions. Dont make proclamations.

Anyway, that's just a thought, and it all depends on your agenda.

 

[Truthseeker]

Thats not absolutely true. Sufism is a sect of Islam. A Sunni Sufi is just a phrase for a very religious person. If you are a Muslim, and you are very religious, a third party person might call you Sufi. That is just a reference to religiosity. It doesnt have to be esoteric, halara, or looking for sainthood.

Ask @Seeker of White Light about this, he knows more about this than I do. He has already agreed with me.

 

[firedragon]

I didn't deviate,it is said there is restriction of alcohol in Islam for worldly life but in jannat that restriction is not there.If that is wrong,you can tell us what is right.

In Jannah, what is given is given.

In real life, Alcohol is called Amalus Shaithan. Do you understand what it is?

And who do you mean "us"?

 

[firedragon]

Ask @Seeker of White Light about this, he knows more about this than I do. He has already agreed with me.

Its still fundamentally wrong. Please dont appeal to spokesmen. Try to analyse by yourself. And when information is given, analyse it, go to direct sources. Dont just believe what I say or anyone else says.

None of us are God.

peace.

 

[Truthseeker]

Its still fundamentally wrong. Please dont appeal to spokesmen. Try to analyse by yourself. And when information is given, analyse it, go to direct sources. Dont just believe what I say or anyone else says.

None of us are God.

peace.

I did analyze it myself. I just disagree with you. Afterwards was when he agreed with me.

 

[firedragon]

I did analyze it myself. I just disagree with you.

Great. But why?

 

[Truthseeker]

Great. But why?

I know for sure you know more about Islam than me. But I took a course on Early mystic Writings of Baha'u'llah. That's where I got my information. It included an overview of Sufism. I have no idea if you know more about Sufism than me.

 

[firedragon]

I know for sure you know more about Islam than me. But I took a course on Early mystic Writings of Baha'u'llah. That's where I got my information. It included an overview of Sufism. I have no idea if you know more about Sufism than me.

I dont mean to demean your source of knowledge. But its wrong. Its a superficial orientation they gave you.

But this would end up in a tangent so there is no need to get into it so deep. I bid you well.

Cheers.

 

[Link]

Brother. The Islamic conception about Allah is that he is one, he is the absolute/necessary being, there is nothing like God. If you wish to put a name to it, its wajib al wujood. Wahdathul wujood means you, Link, is also God. The world is God. Every stone is God. A statue of Krishna and Jesus are both God. The sea is God. The star is God.

The question I have is, if God created creation, he existed before creation, which means he cant be creation, logically. Do you understand?

They always maintained God is everything but nothing in particular. But they never went the other way, that everything is God.

 

[Starlight]

Yep. that's why the question was asked. If you read the OP, it is depicted as a separate religion altogether. I see this pattern, and I am wondering what the reason is.

Brother, why do you say "Sufism is the heart of Islam"? Could you please explain?

@Truthseeker wrote: ↑
He's referring to orthodox Islam when he says Islam, that is, Islam without esoteric meanings in their eyes. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

Sufism and islam is not separate. Sufism is a branch of islam.

The OP should have been written differently.

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Truthseeker wrote: ↑
He's referring to orthodox Islam when he says Islam, that is, Islam without esoteric meanings in their eyes. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

Mainstream islam is sunni and shia yes. Other teaching is esoteric like sufism

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

There's no "vs." for me. I consider Sufism to be a (relatively small) denomination of Islam.

 

[Link]

It's used in both ways. As a sect, as well as a science/branch.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There's no "vs." for me. I consider Sufism to be a (relatively small) denomination of Islam.

Sufism is a way of life within islamic esoteric path

 

[firedragon]

They always maintained God is everything but nothing in particular. But they never went the other way, that everything is God.

They did brother. I know some Sufis in India prior to the Afghani issues started had very Hanbali style ideas, but Ibn Arabi's Wahdathul wujud was always a pantheistic concept. That is the fundamental concept of Allah.

 

[firedragon]

@Truthseeker wrote: ↑
He's referring to orthodox Islam when he says Islam, that is, Islam without esoteric meanings in their eyes. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

Sufism and islam is not separate. Sufism is a branch of islam.

The OP should have been written differently.

Okay. I can agree with that.

 

[Link]

They did brother. I know some Sufis in India prior to the Afghani issues started had very Hanbali style ideas, but Ibn Arabi's Wahdathul wujud was always a pantheistic concept. That is the fundamental concept of Allah.

Brother I use to be obsessed with reading Ibn Arabi and sufi books in general. You don't understand it properly and I don't mean to be rude about that. But I've studied for so many years. There is a lot of hyperbola Ibn Arabi uses. I don't like Ibn Arabi too much myself, but he taught a lot of insights and his view is panentheism.

Pantheism - God is all things
Panentheism = God is all things + but God is beyond all things and transcends.

If you read his Fusus, he talks about how God is seen/not seen, manifest yet unseen, known yet unknown, with all creation, beyond all creation.

You aren't doing his works justice with this oversimplification.

Panentheism is a word that is underlined in red, because it's hardly known. It's pantheism but with addition God transcends.

There is three views when it comes to oneness of all things.

Monism (everything is one)
Panthesim (God is everything)
Panentheism (God is everything + transcends all things)

Ibn Arabi was of the 3rd view. Same with Rumi.