Your understanding of the difference of sufism vs Islam

[Link]

In Irfan, it's taught everything is word type existence (idea spoken by God), when we think of ourselves, we are an idea kept in vision of God and we perceive some of our reality from truth vision and some from falsehood vision of Satanic forces. Material existence is from five senses and has no reality outside of that.

God also sees negative existence with respect to himself and creates things out of both positive submission to him and embracing his light, and negative rebellion towards him.

But everything is created with respect to his essence. His idea of himself and what he is and what he is not and opposite to him, is the truth of what everything is created upon. This is why Quran says if more then one God, everything would be in a state of corruption, the principle governing this world would be not here and there be no truth to our essence.

 

[firedragon]

The way I understand it, it means nothing exists but is from God's own essence it stems from him.

Brother. Thats not the essence of wahdathul Wujood.

 

[Link]

Brother. Thats not the essence of wahdathul Wujood.

Explain how you understand it. Perhaps one of us misunderstands it.

 

[Metempsychosis]

One is a religion of arab raiders which was used by various organized criminal tribes to loot caravans ad share their women.Of course,this is the medieval arab raiding context and this context can be important for some followers.

As such the first one offers little to no ability to question,criticize the faith or their leader.

Sufism looks like a spiritualism based Platonism and Eastern philosophy which is super imposed on top of the raiding tribal ideas.I would suppose this kind of superimposition cannot be great for open minded quest for truth.

Thats just hate speech mate. I think you should do a little bit of reading.

Not anti islamic hate preaching websites, but actual sources.



Lol. You cannot be as far from reality than you are already.

Thasawwuf was an idea in the earliest Muslims. Sufism was born from it. Even Salat means to connect.

I think you just dont know what you are speaking of. So as you said, try to be "open minded and go on a quest for truth", not repeat lies and bogus information you found from somewhere or what you created yourself.

Cheers.

It is not hate speech mate.I am just saying truth without being politically correct.Religion part of Quran is to show Muslims to pray to Allah (which is one true god) and the Islamic way to pray.This I guess it is very similar to Judaism.Rest of the scriptures(not so small part of the religion) is how Pagan tribes of Quraiysh(who don't exist anymore) attacked Muslims and how they are fighting Quraiysh and converting others tribe to Islam.Hajj is a Pagan Quraiysh tradition as well.

There are some sects of Muslims who don't have any context,everything Prophet did was perfet for all time and places. and they are looting any non-Muslims whom they find annoying.

Sufism has much of neoplatonic idea - but if you have sources of Spirituality from core scriptures of Islam (Quran,Hadiths,Sirah- much of Hadiths has little to no spirituality,it has more to do how Prophet lived his life and how muslims should do mundane activities and not some famous Sufi saints who don't base themselves on early Islamic traditions)- you can share them here.

I guess same could be said of other Abrahamic religions but that's besides the topic.

 

[Spirit of Light]

To me as a sufi
Wahdatul wajood meaning is the "Unity of Being". Wahdat-ul-Wajood is a Sufi belief (aqeedah) emphasizing that 'there is no true existence except the Ultimate Truth (God)'. This is the real and true belief not a philosophy or theory.

 

[viole]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

Suufe in Swiss German means drinking alcohol. in that respect, I would be a Suufist, too. Is that the difference to Muslims?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Metempsychosis]

Suufe in Swiss German means drinking alcohol. in that respect, I would be a Suufist, too. Is that the difference to Muslims?

Ciao

- viole

Alchohol is haram. You will get punishment for your mistakes.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Suufe in Swiss German means drinking alcohol. in that respect, I would be a Suufist, too. Is that the difference to Muslims?

Ciao

- viole

Not the same thing and no alcohol for me thanks..

 

[firedragon]

Explain how you understand it. Perhaps one of us misunderstands it.

Brother. The Islamic conception about Allah is that he is one, he is the absolute/necessary being, there is nothing like God. If you wish to put a name to it, its wajib al wujood. Wahdathul wujood means you, Link, is also God. The world is God. Every stone is God. A statue of Krishna and Jesus are both God. The sea is God. The star is God.

The question I have is, if God created creation, he existed before creation, which means he cant be creation, logically. Do you understand?

 

[firedragon]

It is not hate speech mate.I am just saying truth without being politically correct.Religion part of Quran is to show Muslims to pray to Allah (which is one true god) and the Islamic way to pray.This I guess it is very similar to Judaism.Rest of the scriptures(not so small part of the religion) is how Pagan tribes of Quraiysh(who don't exist anymore) attacked Muslims and how they are fighting Quraiysh and converting others tribe to Islam.Hajj is a Pagan Quraiysh tradition as well.

There are some sects of Muslims who don't have any context,everything Prophet did was perfet for all time and places. and they are looting any non-Muslims whom they find annoying.

Sufism has much of neoplatonic idea - but if you have sources of Spirituality from core scriptures of Islam (Quran,Hadiths,Sirah- much of Hadiths has little to no spirituality,it has more to do how Prophet lived his life and how muslims should do mundane activities and not some famous Sufi saints who don't base themselves on early Islamic traditions)- you can share them here.

I guess same could be said of other Abrahamic religions but that's besides the topic.

Mate. You have no clue of what you are talking about do you?

Tell me. What does Tasawwuf mean? You can quickly google it if you want. Lets only speak of things we have researched.

 

[firedragon]

Alchohol is haram. You will get punishment for your mistakes.

It depends. Alcohol is called Amalus shaithan, and it is not outright haram.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Bulle

Mate. You have no clue of what you are talking about do you?

Tell me. What does Tasawwuf mean? You can quickly google it if you want. Lets only speak of things we have researched.

Tasawwuf can be called the inwardness of Islam

The meaning of Tasawwuf


Sufi has the same attitude for dawah and jihad as rest of Islamic sects.Prophet was a tribal head in Saudi Arabia who did looting of caravans and sharing of spoils of war(this I think was a day job in that desert area during those days).He did not start a philosophy school or taught philosophy like Plato or Plotinus or even start monastic institution like Buddha.His aim was to conquer Pagan tribes and convert them to Islam.

Surah Al-Anfal - 1-75

Chapter 8 of Quran reads Surah Al-Anfal literally means spoils of war.If you are doing inward war as Sufis claim to do ,then Islam on plain reading gives a different meaning.

Also,In the Pakistani Salman Taseer Case,the sufi barelvis all took the side of prevent blasphemy instead of supporting Salman Taseer.In Indian subcontinent,there are sufis like Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti.

Khwaja was responsible for killing Hindu King Prithvirajs women relatives .He threw them in front of muslim soldiers who raped n killed them.And Famous Hindu mass murderer Aurangzeb was a sufi who lived an austere life.

And then if you are a true sufi like Bulleh Shah of Punjab,mainstream Islam might declare you as a kafir/infidel and refuse to give you a grave at best or kill you like happened to Mansour Hallaj
.

 

[Metempsychosis]

It depends. Alcohol is called Amalus shaithan, and it is not outright haram.

Also wine is available without any prohibition in Jannat(heaven) as well.In mundane life,it is not recommended as per Islam.

 

[firedragon]

Tasawwuf can be called the inwardness of Islam

Thats fundamentally wrong. Tasawwuf means connection. relationship. What you are speaking of is a developed theological meaning, but that is not the primary theological meaning.

Thats why quick googling is not a good method of knowledge and posing as if one is an expert when the knowledge about these things are as shallow as it could get.

Way before there was ever a group called Sufi, Malik Ibn Anas mentioned Tasawwuf in the Mudawwana. This is the school of Medina, the oldest school of thought in Islamic philosophy, Fikh, etc.

Sufi has the same attitude for dawah and jihad as rest of Islamic sects.

Err. You dont understand what Jihad is mate. Could you try and give the meaning of Jihad in the Quran? Be specific, not just random rhetorical comments.

Chapter 8 of Quran reads Surah Al-Anfal literally means spoils of war

Thats not Jihad. Thats Nafal which means "The excess" in its foundation. It is not Jihad, so please try not to make things up. The word Jihad is not used here.

 

[firedragon]

Also wine is available without any prohibition in Jannat(heaven) as well.In mundane life,it is not recommended as per Islam.

So, that's contradicting your outright claim about Haram right? Did you just contradict yourself?

You should seriously find another source of knowledge.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Thats fundamentally wrong. Tasawwuf means connection. relationship. What you are speaking of is a developed theological meaning, but that is not the primary theological meaning.

Thats why quick googling is not a good method of knowledge and posing as if one is an expert when the knowledge about these things are as shallow as it could get.

Way before there was ever a group called Sufi, Malik Ibn Anas mentioned Tasawwuf in the Mudawwana. This is the school of Medina, the oldest school of thought in Islamic philosophy, Fikh, etc.



Err. You dont understand what Jihad is mate. Could you try and give the meaning of Jihad in the Quran? Be specific, not just random rhetorical comments.



Thats not Jihad. Thats Nafal which means "The excess" in its foundation. It is not Jihad, so please try not to make things up. The word Jihad is not used here.

Jihas means struggle from what I know.If sufism means internal struggle then good for you,but why would you have spoils of war for an internal struggle.Muslims have to understand Jihad is internal struggle,not me.
I am not an expert but I know enough of Islam, I have good muslim friends also and I also know how it works practically.If crazy Jihadi(who calls himself Sufi) makes a physical war with me/any infidel to get Al-Anfal,then we will send them to the "peace" of Islam.

 

[Metempsychosis]

So, that's contradicting your outright claim about Haram right? Did you just contradict yourself?

You should seriously find another source of knowledge.

From what know it is not allowed in Mundane/worldly life but in Jannat is wine is available.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Jihas means struggle from what I know.If sufism means internal struggle then good for you,but why would you have spoils of war for an internal struggle.Muslims have to understand Jihad is internal struggle,not me.
I am not an expert but I know enough of Islam, I have good muslim friends also and I also know how it works practically.If crazy Jihadi(who calls himself Sufi) makes a physical war with me/any infidel to get Al-Anfal,then we will send them to the "peace" of Islam.

A peaceful sufi who only have inward jihad would not harm you, or disrespect you in any way. A sufi who do only the inward seeking loses attachments to this world and would leave you alone, until you ask him/her for advice or help.

Sufism is love and kindness.

 

[firedragon]

Jihas means struggle from what I know.If sufism means internal struggle then good for you,but why would you have spoils of war for an internal struggle.Muslims have to understand Jihad is internal struggle,not me.
I am not an expert but I know enough of Islam, I have good muslim friends also and I also know how it works practically.If crazy Jihadi(who calls himself Sufi) makes a physical war with me/any infidel to get Al-Anfal,then we will send them to the "peace" of Islam.

Jihad means to try. This is the reason I asked you to quote the Qur'an. And mate, Muslims know this very well. It seems like the Anti Muslim apologist dont know anything about it.

Now you say you know enough about Islam but your source of knowledge is "Good Muslim Friends". And you turn it into "Crazy Jihadi" etc etc and you superimpose that to the so called "Al anfal" and deviate to more hate spreading.

Mate. you are wrong. Try to get a better source of knowledge.

 

[firedragon]

From what know it is not allowed in Mundane/worldly life but in Jannat is wine is available.

So you brought in a common apologetic. No worries. So wine is available in Jannah.

You are deviating from your original claim which was ignorant. Aren't you? Didnt you simply deviate? Whats your purpose? Whats your agenda? Do you intend to simply spread hatred for Muslims and Islam?

Please clarify.