Your understanding of the difference of sufism vs Islam

[Spirit of Light]

@Truthseeker are you sure there isn't a sufi hiding within you

 

[Truthseeker]

This is like asking what is the difference between Methodism and Christianity. The first is a subgroup of the latter. So sufism is Islam, but is a subgroup. It is a mystical development within Islam.

You have the same conceptual problem as Starlight94. It's orthodox, unesoteric Islam vs. mystical Islam. Sufi is not a sect of Islam. You can be a Sunni Sufi or a Shi'i Sufi.

 

[Truthseeker]

Death befor dying means end of ego while stil living on this earth so yes ego death is most important
And you do understand sufi thought my friend

Reading the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys by Baha'u'llah helps. By the way, I first heard the voice of God when I read the beginning of the Seven Valley 51 years ago. That's when I woke up spiritually. However, the higher valleys in the Seven Valleys are still beyond me. The Seven Valleys were written after the pattern of Conference of the Birds by Attar.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Reading the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys by Baha'u'llah helps. By the way, I first heard the voice of God when I read the beginning of the Seven Valley 51 years ago. That's when I woke up spiritually. However, the higher valleys in the Seven Valleys are still beyond me. The Seven Valleys were written after the pattern of Conference of the Birds by Attar.

Now I understand where you have your wisdom from

 

[Starlight]

He's referring to orthodox Islam when he says Islam, that is, Islam without esoteric meanings in their eyes. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

I see. I misunderstood him.

 

[firedragon]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

Is Sufism not Islam?

 

[Metempsychosis]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

One is a religion of arab raiders which was used by various organized criminal tribes to loot caravans ad share their women.Of course,this is the medieval arab raiding context and this context can be important for some followers.

As such the first one offers little to no ability to question,criticize the faith or their leader.

Sufism looks like a spiritualism based Platonism and Eastern philosophy which is super imposed on top of the raiding tribal ideas.I would suppose this kind of superimposition cannot be great for open minded quest for truth.

 

[Starlight]

Is Sufism not Islam?

sufism is a branch of islam.

Sufism is the heart of islam. Sufi islam is the mystical/spiritual dimention of islam

Sufism is not separate from islam.

 

[Link]

I semi-Sufi because I believe in Wahdatal wujood and a lot of their spiritual teachings, but disagree with some of their teachings and methods.

 

[Link]

Sufism/Irfan to me is part of Islam. And like all parts including Fiqh, some we get right, some we get wrong. It's not an infallible untouchable science.

 

[Link]

The reason why I stay away from them and their leaders is because they went into astrology (many of them) and that's forbidden to believe in and go into per hadiths of the Prophet (s) - Sunni and Shiite.

Same reason I say away from Shiite scholars, because they go into Ilmel Jafr which to me is clear sorcery attributed to Imam Jafar (a) that contradicts Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) teachings.

I'm in the view, however, you can learn of it only to learn the control mechanisms of Satanic forces, and seek to free yourself from it. To learn it as in believe in it and embrace it is totally haram.

 

[Link]

sufism is a branch of islam.

Sufism is the heart of islam. Sufi islam is the mystical/spiritual dimention of islam

Sufism is not separate from islam.

And to me the heart of mystical dimension of Islam is love of Ahlulbayt (a).

 

[firedragon]

sufism is a branch of islam.

Sufism is the heart of islam. Sufi islam is the mystical/spiritual dimention of islam

Sufism is not separate from islam.

Yep. that's why the question was asked. If you read the OP, it is depicted as a separate religion altogether. I see this pattern, and I am wondering what the reason is.

Brother, why do you say "Sufism is the heart of Islam"? Could you please explain?

 

[firedragon]

You have the same conceptual problem as Starlight94. It's orthodox, unesoteric Islam vs. mystical Islam. Sufi is not a sect of Islam. You can be a Sunni Sufi or a Shi'i Sufi.

Thats not absolutely true. Sufism is a sect of Islam. A Sunni Sufi is just a phrase for a very religious person. If you are a Muslim, and you are very religious, a third party person might call you Sufi. That is just a reference to religiosity. It doesnt have to be esoteric, halara, or looking for sainthood.

 

[firedragon]

I semi-Sufi because I believe in Wahdatal wujood and a lot of their spiritual teachings, but disagree with some of their teachings and methods.

You believe in Wahdathul Wujood? Why? Can you explain a bit?

 

[Link]

You believe in Wahdathul Wujood? Why? Can you explain a bit?

God's life is Ultimate amount. Because God is filled with all greatness, goodness, beauty, and life, everything stems from him.

God's Life amount = God's Life amount + creation life amount.

This means creation doesn't add to amount of life therefore it stems from him. God lacks nothing, everything is found in him.

That and God is the light of all light, the truth of HIs sustenance being from him and towards him and returning us to him is talked about in the Quran.

 

[firedragon]

One is a religion of arab raiders which was used by various organized criminal tribes to loot caravans ad share their women.Of course,this is the medieval arab raiding context and this context can be important for some followers.

Thats just hate speech mate. I think you should do a little bit of reading.

Not anti islamic hate preaching websites, but actual sources.

Sufism looks like a spiritualism based Platonism and Eastern philosophy which is super imposed on top of the raiding tribal ideas.I would suppose this kind of superimposition cannot be great for open minded quest for truth.

Lol. You cannot be as far from reality than you are already.

Thasawwuf was an idea in the earliest Muslims. Sufism was born from it. Even Salat means to connect.

I think you just dont know what you are speaking of. So as you said, try to be "open minded and go on a quest for truth", not repeat lies and bogus information you found from somewhere or what you created yourself.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

God's life is Ultimate amount. Because God is filled with all greatness, goodness, beauty, and life, everything stems from him.

God's Life amount = God's Life amount + creation life amount.

This means creation doesn't add to amount of life therefore it seems from him. God lacks nothing, everything is found in him.

That and God is the light of all light, the truth of HIs sustenance being from him and towards him and returning us to him is talked about in the Quran.

Thats not Wahdathul Wujood.

 

[Link]

Thats not Wahdathul Wujood.

The way I understand it, it means nothing exists but is from God's own essence it stems from him.

 

[Link]

When it comes to glory and greatness, it's saying God is the blessed one in the fire, God has more claim to praise and goodness found in creation, then they do to it. While evil, we have greater attribute to it, though God can always save us from it.

"You did not throw when you threw but God threw".