Your Movement Needs You

[JustGeorge]

Unwatch. Unwatch. Unwatch.

I feel like that's been me and most threads over the last few days.

It could be the heat's getting to me, and I'm irritable. But it seems to me a lot of threads devolve in the same direction, and that is vs. Theist vs Atheist. Pro-life vs. Pro Choice. Conservative vs. liberal. Creation vs evolution. Mr. Clean vs. Lysol. And there seldom seems to be any in between.

This in itself just seems how it is these days. But, I notice most(on either side) become quite impassioned. I'm not saying that's bad. In some situations, it could be good. But I have always felt, in the long run, I'm pretty insignificant. I don't feel any of the 'movements' I'd be aligned with actually need me.

Maybe I have low self esteem or something, but that's not what I'm wanting to discuss today. I am curious(and please understand I'm not trying to be critical)if others feel their movements need them(regardless of what that is, faith/nonfaith, political, etc), and that their participation in these movements makes a difference.

If so, what does one do to make a difference in that movement? Does simply debating it(on forums, or elsewhere) help this difference? Or does one have to go out and protest/proselytize/organize clean ups to make a difference? Something else?

This isn't a space to debate between movements, but whether or not participation in them is important, and to what degree it makes a difference.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Meh.

My choice of religious affiliation doesn't need me.

As for politics, I feel it's all smoke anyway. Whenever a politician convinces people things are going great, they go horribly in my local area. Whenever a politician convinces people things are going terrible, they go great in my area....

And right now, things are going pretty good in my area. But if you go by the internet, things are suppose to be in pieces right now due to the Roe vs. Wade decision, but things are much better in my town than 5 years ago.

 

[Rival]

I can become angry.

I become angry because people don't seem to want to change their minds. I've changed my mind due to RF discussions many times and it angers me that others seems unable to do the same. I'm saddened and angered that folks older than me (I'm 26) are so stuck in their ways that even when I am prepared to change my mind, they don't seem to want to. I think 'Here I am, prepared to listen, but now I'm forced to debate because you aren't prepared to listen or change your mind on anything.' I've changed politically, religiously, socially etc. and yet I find others won't even accept a premise and so we get back to your own, that folks won't accept the starting statement. So if someone wants to debate something within Christianity, an atheist may often come in with 'Prove your God exists in the first place!!!!' and it's just 'I won't even hypothetically accept your premise'. It makes discussion tedious.

 

[JustGeorge]

And right now, things are going pretty good in my area. But if you go by the internet, things are suppose to be in pieces right now due to the Roe vs. Wade decision, but things are much better in my town than 5 years ago.

I feel in my area, most are so consumed by what's going on in the mainstream news, we ignore the bullets zinging by our ears, and deafen the cry of our neighbors in need with our favorite news station...

Might be why I get a little apathetic on the 'big issues'.

I can become angry.

I become angry because people don't seem to want to change their minds. I've changed my mind due to RF discussions many times and it angers me that others seems unable to do the same. I'm saddened and angered that folks older than me (I'm 26) are so stuck in their ways that even when I am prepared to change my mind, they don't seem to want to. I think 'Here I am, prepared to listen, but now I'm forced to debate because you won't change your mind on anything.' I've changed politically, religiously, socially etc. and yet I find others won't even accept a premise and so we get back to your own, that folks won't accept the starting statement. So if someone wants to debate something within Christianity, an atheist may often come in with 'Prove your God exists in the first place!!!!' and it's just 'I won't even hypothetically accept your premise'. It makes discussion tedious.

Sometimes I get a little angry, too. Sometimes things seem more like a sport or game, in which their is a winner and loser, rather than human beings setting out to learn and grow.

 

[Rival]

Sometimes I get a little angry, too. Sometimes things seem more like a sport or game, in which their is a winner and loser, rather than human beings setting out to learn and grow.

Spot on. It's all about defending or attacking one's position instead of listening and learning, or having a productive debate where folks are civil.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I feel in my area, most are so consumed by what's going on in the mainstream news, we ignore the bullets zinging by our ears, and deafen the cry of our neighbors in need with our favorite news station...

Might be why I get a little apathetic on the 'big issues'.

That's too bad. I feel there used to be a lot of superstition in my town - ghost stories, etc, and being raised in a local environment like that affected me too. But now, people are getting focused on family, education, and work, and listening to Alex Jones or whomever, doesn't have the same appeal to them it used to.

 

[exchemist]

Unwatch. Unwatch. Unwatch.

I feel like that's been me and most threads over the last few days.

It could be the heat's getting to me, and I'm irritable. But it seems to me a lot of threads devolve in the same direction, and that is vs. Theist vs Atheist. Pro-life vs. Pro Choice. Conservative vs. liberal. Creation vs evolution. Mr. Clean vs. Lysol. And there seldom seems to be any in between.

This in itself just seems how it is these days. But, I notice most(on either side) become quite impassioned. I'm not saying that's bad. In some situations, it could be good. But I have always felt, in the long run, I'm pretty insignificant. I don't feel any of the 'movements' I'd be aligned with actually need me.

Maybe I have low self esteem or something, but that's not what I'm wanting to discuss today. I am curious(and please understand I'm not trying to be critical)if others feel their movements need them(regardless of what that is, faith/nonfaith, political, etc), and that their participation in these movements makes a difference.

If so, what does one do to make a difference in that movement? Does simply debating it(on forums, or elsewhere) help this difference? Or does one have to go out and protest/proselytize/organize clean ups to make a difference? Something else?

This isn't a space to debate between movements, but whether or not participation in them is important, and to what degree it makes a difference.

I sympathise. Which is why I don't consider myself part of any movement. I just have my particular interests that I like to promote, on an individual basis, when I see an opportunity:

- non-antagonism between science and sensible religion,

- science in general,

- food and drink,

-moderate politics,

- classical music, especially choral,

- Charlotte..........

 

[JustGeorge]

I sympathise. Which is why I don't consider myself part of any movement. I just have my particular interests that I like to promote, on an individual basis, when I see an opportunity:

- non-antagonism between science and sensible religion,

- science in general,

- food and drink,

-moderate politics,

- classical music, especially choral,

- Charlotte..........

Who's Charlotte?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

If you go by record, it seems like every 2-3 years, I change my religion.

I've considered myself left wing politically most of my life, but I'm now kind of sitting in the middle ground after several experiences, both online and off, including realizing that there are non-American forms of conservatism that I find to be pretty exceptional. But I'm still thinking about things.

 

[exchemist]

Who's Charlotte?

The one who did the Bad Witch make-up video I once showed you, and who I admitted to having, rather to my surprise, a mild crush on: Recalling your Crushes

Her accent - which I adore - has triggered a new interest for me in the North-East of England, a part of the country I don't know well at all. I'm thinking of driving up the East side when I take my son back to uni in Scotland, so I can see Durham and Newcastle (which she pronounces NewCASSle, as they do up there.) But I digress...........

 

[JustGeorge]

The one who did the Bad Witch make-up video I once showed you, and who I admitted to having, rather to my surprise, a mild crush on: Recalling your Crushes

Her accent - which I adore - has triggered a new interest for me in the North-East of England, a part of the country I don't know well at all. I'm thinking of driving up the East side when I take my son back to uni in Scotland, so I can see Durham and Newcastle (which she pronounces NewCASSle, as they do up there.) But I digress...........

I wondered if that was who you were referencing...

I hope you go, and have a wonderful trip.

 

[danieldemol]

Sometimes things seem more like a sport or game, in which their is a winner and loser, rather than human beings setting out to learn and grow.

True, but what can you do with people who set out to try and make their debating opponent into an adversary? My way of dealing with them is to give a winner rating to their thoughtful opponents so as to challenge the view in their minds of them as winners and their opponents as losers.

In my opinion.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Aside from catharsis RF debate is (in my opinion) useless, and I find myself increasingly relying on the ignore-list.

 

[exchemist]

I wondered if that was who you were referencing...

I hope you go, and have a wonderful trip.

Thanks, you're a sweetie too.

Listening to Charlotte, I suddenly had flash into my mind, after an interval of more than 60 years, a Newcastle (Geordie) folk song that my mother used to sing to us when we were tiny boys: The Keel Row.

As I came through Sandgate, through Sandgate, through Sandgate,
as I came through Sandgate I heard a lassie sing:
" Weel may the keel row, the keel row, the keel row,
weel may the keel row, the boat that my love's in."

My mother's version has different words at the end, "the boat that my love's in", from the standard version which is "that my laddie's in". I like hers better, as it makes the singer sing "boat", which in NE accent becomes something between bawt and bo-at - very characteristic of the region. I suspect she adapted it because she had a rowing boyfriend (later my father) at university and wanted to make it more romantic.

This is how it goes:

The tune is also used for a quick march by several British Army regiments.

 

[JustGeorge]

True, but what can you do with people who set out to try and make their debating opponent into an adversary? My way of dealing with them is to give a winner rating to their thoughtful opponents so as to challenge the view in their minds of them as winners and their opponents as losers.

In my opinion.

When things start to go from "I'm talking with random people online" to "I must prove my adversary wrong", I tend to get bored real quick and leave the thread.

I appreciate positive challenges, but the vs. attitude gives me a headache.

I have three sons. I deal with vs. all day!

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

When things start to go from "I'm talking with random people online" to "I must prove my adversary wrong", I tend to get bored real quick and leave the thread.

I appreciate positive challenges, but the vs. attitude gives me a headache.

I have three sons. I deal with vs. all day!

But how would debates work without two sides going at it? Doesn't conversation in that case usually end with two people shaking hands by post 2-3?

 

[JustGeorge]

But how would debates work without two sides going at it? Doesn't conversation in that case usually end with two people shaking hands by post 2-3?

Its hard for me to see things in 'twos'. "Red side, blue side, compete!" That might be why this kind of banter has absolutely no appeal to me. It seems one could add another dimension into any debate... but it almost always goes back to two sides. The opinions I hold almost never line up with either 'side'(on almost anything), which might also contribute to my boredom with such manner of debate.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Its hard for me to see things in 'twos'. "Red side, blue side, compete!" That might be why this kind of banter has absolutely no appeal to me. It seems one could add another dimension into any debate... but it almost always goes back to two sides. The opinions I hold almost never line up with either 'side'(on almost anything), which might also contribute to boredom with such manner of debate.

Debate can only go so far, yeah.... Often when two sides go at it, the actual truth might be between both sides, and not so much on either side.

 

[exchemist]

When things start to go from "I'm talking with random people online" to "I must prove my adversary wrong", I tend to get bored real quick and leave the thread.

I appreciate positive challenges, but the vs. attitude gives me a headache.

I have three sons. I deal with vs. all day!

@JustGeorge, you are one of the few people here with whom I often end up having a chat, rather than trying to prove a point. Our exchange above is a case in point. I greatly enjoy our chats. They make a nice change from arguing and you don't seem to mind if I drift from one topic to another, or ramble on.

 

[JustGeorge]

@JustGeorge, you are one of the few people here with whom I often end up having a chat, rather than trying to prove a point. Our exchange above is a case in point. I greatly enjoy our chats. They make a nice change from arguing and you don't seem to mind if I drift from one topic to another, or ramble on.

I enjoy chatting with you, too.

And now I totally have The Keel Row stuck in my head...