Written Words vs Intention of Written Words

[Iymus]

We know what the words say in the following two verses; However does what the words say, represent what the words mean? Food for thought or reflection.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

 

[Iymus]

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We know what the words say in the following two verses; However does what the words say, represent what the words mean? Food for thought or reflection.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

In my religions scriptures satan is a symbolic term used to describe the ego or lower self. So it is my thought that when Christ made that statement He could have been addressing the ego of Peter and was offended by its emergence to be against self sacrifice as opposed to the spiritual self which is always prepared and ready to sacrifice all in the path of God.

The passage doesn’t mean that Peter was satanic but that he allowed his ego to motivate him at that moment which was blameworthy in that instance. Just because Peter was weak at that one time doesn’t mean he wasn’t deserving or spiritual enough for Christ to claim that His church would be built upon the true faith that Peter exhibited.

It was a moment of weakness of Peter that Christ condemned not an eternally binding appellation and condemnation. This is just my understanding.

 

[exchemist]

We know what the words say in the following two verses; However does what the words say, represent what the words mean? Food for thought or reflection.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

If you are unsure, why not try a translation into more modern English? I generally use the Jerusalem bible when I find Stuart era English obscure.

 

[Iymus]

If you are unsure, why not try a translation into more modern English?

Food for thought or reflection.

 

[Iymus]

We know what the words say in the following two verses; However does what the words say, represent what the words mean? Food for thought or reflection.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Some seem to use what verse 18 says to fit narrative yet by that same logic one can use verse 23 to fit narrative.

Not wanting to see spirit or intention behind what is written but instead wanting letter of what is written

My intention is to try and show how individuals or one particular organization; use letter of what is written, and not spirit of what is written to make merchandise of others; whether knowingly or unknowingly.

2Pe 2:1 KJV But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2Pe 2:2 KJV And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2Pe 2:3 KJV And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

 

[exchemist]

Whut?

 

[Iymus]

Some seem to use what verse 18 says to fit narrative yet by that same logic one can use verse 23 to fit narrative.

Not wanting to see spirit or intention behind what is written but instead wanting letter of what is written

My intention is to try and show how individuals or one particular organization; use letter of what is written, and not spirit of what is written to make merchandise of others; whether knowingly or unknowingly.

2Pe 2:1 KJV But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2Pe 2:2 KJV And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2Pe 2:3 KJV And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Speculation; Peter is not the rock

Deu 1:17 KJV Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

Luk 2:49 KJV And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Joh 4:34 KJV Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 10:37 KJV If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

 

[Iymus]

Whut?

Peter himself literally being the rock is disingenuous and Peter himself literally being Satan is disingenuous.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

 

[exchemist]

Peter himself literally being the rock is disingenuous and Peter himself literally being Satan is disingenuous.

But who is such an idiot as not to see the metaphor?

Or is your point the obvious absurdity of claiming to take every word of the bible literally?

 

[Iymus]

But who is such an idiot as not to see the metaphor?

Then those who make merchandise of men are not idiots or perhaps naive? Thank you for the insight, then I suppose that would mean they are all deliberate.

2Pe 2:1 KJV But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 KJV And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 KJV And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Or is your point the obvious absurdity of claiming to take every word of the bible literally?

closer examination please.

Peter himself literally being the rock is disingenuous and Peter himself literally being Satan is disingenuous.

 

[exchemist]

Then those who make merchandise of men are not idiots or perhaps naive? Thank you for the insight, then I suppose that would mean they are all deliberate.

2Pe 2:1 KJV But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 KJV And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 KJV And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.



closer examination please.

I can’t make sense of what you are saying. It might help if you were to try not to talk in riddles.

But, so that at least one of us is clear what he is saying, Tu es Petrus is a (blindingly obvious) metaphor for Simon Peter’s faith and personality. It is not «disingenuous » to employ a metaphor in speech.

What is your point?

 

[Iymus]

I can’t make sense of what you are saying. It might help if you were to try not to talk in riddles.

Disingenuous as not correct or genuine.

But, so that at least one of us is clear what he is saying, Tu es Petrus is a (blindingly obvious) metaphor for Simon Peter’s faith and personality. It is not «disingenuous » to employ a metaphor in speech.

What is your point?

Mat 7:16 KJV Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

 

[exchemist]

Disingenuous as not correct or genuine.



Mat 7:16 KJV Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Look, stop mucking about. Do you, or do you not, understand the metaphor of Simon being described as a rock and being chosen , for that reason, to found the church?

 

[Iymus]

Do you, or do you not, understand the metaphor of Simon being described as a rock

Speculation; Peter is not the rock

Father's business.

 

[exchemist]

Speculation; Peter is not the rock

Father's business.

OK since you are unable to articulate whatever point you seem to want to make, I will leave you to it.

 

[Iymus]

OK since you are unable to articulate whatever point you seem to want to make,

Pro 17:27 KJV He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.

I will leave you to it.

1Ti 1:2 KJV Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.