After all, women suffer more pain during pregnancy, and childbirth. They have monthly cycles that affect their hormonal balance, and they are more physically attached to their children during infancy at least. Is that a sexist assessment or are these characteristics essential for the human society and she plays a different though equally important role in preserving and developing the status of the human race. Also has her physical vulnerabilty been the reason for her second class status throughout history in most societies? With more elements of power in the modern sense, how do you see the prospects of her gaining a truly equal status to man?
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Would you call Nature sexist?
- Thread starter Iman
- Start date
ThereIsNoSpoon
Active Member
Nature is not sexistic. Nature is not a being. That being said ... what is "truly equal" ? And who says that women and men must be "truly equal" in the sense that it supposedly means ? In my view men and women are in many aspects absolutely unequal and that is not meant in a negative way.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
But ask any man and they would switch to women orgasms in a second..
All the things I quoted in the first quote have little to do with the status one aquires..
"Truly equal" is women being men. Now that's sexist.
Many believe that nature responds to a force that is conscious, with motive and intent. While it may be ludicrous to critique nature, many find it reasonable to critique a God figure that they do not adequately understand. Both seem unaffected by our criticism.
While I agree that absolute equality undermines essential differences that cannot be overlooked, even a notion of basic equality as in the inapplicability of inferior/superior on the human level is absent even in Western societies. Women are still victims of a pay gap for the same work, domestic abuse, sexual harrassment and exploitation. Although the laws in most western societies overcame many of the isms of disadvantage, the social isms are still alive and well. That being said, western societies are far more advanced in this sense than many societies worldwide where women inferiority and dependency is taken for granted. I see a proportianal relationship between power, as in education, financial independence, and support network, on the one hand, and status, as in the way she is perceievd and treated within her society.
Maybe not in modern societies where the concept of power was drastically adjusted. Physical power is now at the bottom of the ladder of power differetial.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
Longer and more intense... Yeah, why would they
well, aren't we in a modern society now?
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
LOL, why? not that you believe it, but why the test? And how can you fail it?
I am one of them; and yet, the motive and intent I see in the world is the motive and intent I know. It stems from my knowledge, my observation, my assignations and assumptions. It a part of the picture (of the world) that I've drawn.
To say that woman is treated unfairly because she experiences pain at childbirth is to say that she is compared to the man who does not have to experience the pain. To say that the woman should experience no pain of childbirth is to suggest that the woman should be "like the man". There, in our assumptions, lies the sexism.
Do hurricanes respect private property? It is a silly question. Nature does not have intentions, opinions, judgments or prejudices. Yes many people personify nature giving assigning it motives and intentions, but that thinking can quite quickly become absurd, and potentially dangerous.
I agree with most of what you say, but then again, women try to avoid childbirth pain, myself included, they use formula and babysitters, they use painkillers and contraceptives, in an attempt to avoid many of these "disadvantages". Are they trying to be men, or just to overcome some of the difficulties associated with being women?
fantôme profane;1453067 said:
So all these episodes of discrimination and abuse against women throughout history are completely man-made? Even if you don't see nature as responsive to a higher authority, wouldn't you say it contributed to the way women were/are treated across time, and place?
1. Have they tried giving birth?Longer and more intense... Yeah, why would they
well, aren't we in a modern society now?
2. What she is today has evolved with time, but still has the prints of biology all over it. Why are women more susceptible to sexual crimes, domestic abuse, and sexual exploitation? Isn't female vulnerability at the heart of her plight?
I can imagine men and women having different roles in life, and with that a different set of "tests" of patience and endurance, however, people are free to alleviate and facilitate these tests however and whenever they can.
Iman, I'm having a very difficult time trying to understand the point of the OP. Nature itself cannot be sexist - it is the sentient beings that interpret causes and conditions in sexist ways and abuse others in light of these interpretations that creates misery.
Women may endure a lot of pain, but we also live longer and are less susceptible to illness, developmental disorders, and substance abuse.
I've given birth twice. Once I gave birth completely naturally. I also breastfed my kids until they weaned naturally. Sure, there are hurdles, but given the choice between never-feeling-labor-pains and having multiple orgasms? Honestly, the choice is REALLY easy, imo. :angel2:
Women may endure a lot of pain, but we also live longer and are less susceptible to illness, developmental disorders, and substance abuse.
I've given birth twice. Once I gave birth completely naturally. I also breastfed my kids until they weaned naturally. Sure, there are hurdles, but given the choice between never-feeling-labor-pains and having multiple orgasms? Honestly, the choice is REALLY easy, imo. :angel2:
Whatever they try to be isn't relevant to the picture I had painted; it's in what we observe that "sexism" is given leave to enter the picture. It's also given leave, in the same manner, to be nowhere in the picture.
I am glad that you feel this way. Really I do not think that nature , or God, is sexist. I am trying to deconstruct the concept of sexism and trace it back to the very biology of women. What is it that we label as sexism, is it a man's urge to protect women, abuse women to reinforce his sense of superiority, or is it the society itself institutionalizing female inferiority by giving her less pay, viewing her as less qualified for certain positions, or allowing boys to be boys around her for example. How has human society, in general , and Western society in particular change with regard to women issues, what triggered this change and where is it heading? Just general questions floating in my mind.