Works versus Claims

[rusra02]

Jesus said to religious leaders of his day; "you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." (Matthew 23:27,28) A look at the history of religions, long ago or recent, we see massacres of innocents, and no end to evil conduct being practiced. The two world wars were fought by and supported on both sides by "Christian" religions, and non-Christian religions with equal fervor. That is but one of many examples of works versus claims. What does this indicate to you about the religions being practiced by most people today?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I don't think it's a modern problem. The apostles were trying to be exclusive than Jesus was before he even died. To many, religion is just some sort of fan club, like Trekkies or Whovians or sports fans or whatever. All that matters to them is shallow, ultimately meaningless labels for their "team". I believe that John the Baptist is correct, and we shouldn't praise our group identity, because our group identity can be made up out of rocks, for all God cares.

 

[`mud]

Fear
Hate
Greed
~
'mud

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

That's the hardest thing I mull over regarding Christianity: if it is so awesome and so soul-changing, why doesn't it seem to change people for the better?

 

[`mud]

Owners
Slaves
Dead
~
'mud

 

[`mud]

And:
hey Kelly......
just hey...that's all I guess !
~
'mud

 

[Sleeppy]

Hypocrisy isn't limited to religious belief. It is a natural product of autolatry, affecting everyone. Don't attempt to exclude yourself from the judgement you give.

 

[George-ananda]

What does this indicate to you about the religions being practiced by most people today?

That there always have and still are 'all kinds' out there. Humanity is a mixed lot.

 

[rusra02]

That's the hardest thing I mull over regarding Christianity: if it is so awesome and so soul-changing, why doesn't it seem to change people for the better?

I believe true Christianity does change people for the better. It's those falsely claiming to follow Jesus teachings that are responsible for the horrors perpetrated in Christ's name, IMO.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

It's those falsely claiming to follow Jesus teachings that are responsible for the horrors perpetrated in Christ's name.

I think that's an example of the no true Scotsman fallacy:
"No Scotsman would do that."
"But Jock McTavish does it."
"Then Jock McTavish isn't be a true Scotsman."

And did Jesus preach peace? "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." And isn't threatening people with eternal torment for the errors of one short life time a horror?

 

[rusra02]

I think that's an example of the no true Scotsman fallacy:
"No Scotsman would do that."
"But Jock McTavish does it."
"Then Jock McTavish isn't be a true Scotsman."

And did Jesus preach peace? "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." And isn't threatening people with eternal torment for the errors of one short life time a horror?

Did Jesus teach eternal torment for the wicked? I believe the answer is no. Rather, he taught the wicked will be destroyed. (John 3:16) As for Jesus words you quote above, the I believe the context makes it clear Jesus was not advocating violence. "Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:34-38) Jesus knew that his followers would be opposed, sometimes violently, even by their own families. It is not the true religion that causes this division, but rather the reaction of others, including relatives, to the Christian's faith. Jesus made the point a true Christian must not allow family ties to cause one to abandon true worship.

 

[`mud]

"...abandon true worship." ???
How does one know what "true" means.
Do we worship Jesus, God, Buddha, Brahma, Allah, or whatever ?
Please, explain your explicit meaning of "true worship" ?
~
'mud

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Did Jesus teach eternal torment for the wicked? I believe the answer is no. Rather, he taught the wicked will be destroyed.

"I'm not going to torture you! I'm going to exterminate you." Am I supposed to say "Thank you"?

 

[rusra02]

"I'm not going to torture you! I'm going to exterminate you." Am I supposed to say "Thank you"?

Did you read the rest of John 3:16? "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." I believe this Scripture and the rest of the Bible shows God wants people to receive everlasting life. I marvel at God's patience with mankind, given the sordid, bloody, violent, oppressive record that continues to today. (2 Peter 3:9,10)

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I get that, but WHY would a person who has been tortured by God HAVE faith in Him? Don't they have REASON to be upset? Who exactly broke the trust between the two?

 

[McBell]

Did Jesus teach eternal torment for the wicked? I believe the answer is no. Rather, he taught the wicked will be destroyed. (John 3:16) As for Jesus words you quote above, the I believe the context makes it clear Jesus was not advocating violence. "Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:34-38) Jesus knew that his followers would be opposed, sometimes violently, even by their own families. It is not the true religion that causes this division, but rather the reaction of others, including relatives, to the Christian's faith. Jesus made the point a true Christian must not allow family ties to cause one to abandon true worship.

Now that there is a whole lot of double talk.

 

[`mud]

Were any of the Apostles married ??
ever ?
~
'mud

 

[rusra02]

Were any of the Apostles married ??
ever ?
~
'mud

Sure they were. At 1 Corinthians 9:5, the apostle Paul wrote: "We have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as the rest of the apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Ceʹphas, do we not? " Cephas was another name for Peter, who was a married man. (Matthew 8:14)

 

[Thief]

Jesus said to religious leaders of his day; "you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." (Matthew 23:27,28) A look at the history of religions, long ago or recent, we see massacres of innocents, and no end to evil conduct being practiced. The two world wars were fought by and supported on both sides by "Christian" religions, and non-Christian religions with equal fervor. That is but one of many examples of works versus claims. What does this indicate to you about the religions being practiced by most people today?

history lessons to explain the darkness of the soul?

with or without history.....the soul of Man is dark

it is written....go to your closet and close the door
and the spirit that knows you will hear your prayer

that saying.... does not say....
what kind of spirit that might be

what you are 'inside' .....draws to you that 'other' spirit

 

[rusra02]

history lessons to explain the darkness of the soul?

with or without history.....the soul of Man is dark

it is written....go to your closet and close the door
and the spirit that knows you will hear your prayer

that saying.... does not say....
what kind of spirit that might be

what you are 'inside' .....draws to you that 'other' spirit

I think false religions darken the mind and spirit of their adherents. (2 Corinthians 4:4)