Women's Sports

[wellwisher]

Sports, in general, is unique in modern culture. Everyone gets to play, with everyone is expected to play by one set of rules, often with referees to impose those rules. Sports also breaks down into individuals, teams and leagues, based on one's level of ability in that sport. Sports does not assume we are all equal, since that is a myth. It has objective criteria such a points scored, or seconds to run 100 meter, to objectively separate talent into leagues. It does not try to cloud reason with sentiment.

Sports acknowledges and takes into account various levels of ability; we are not all equal in sports. It tries to place people with equal ability in the same leagues, so the competition is always fair, allowing everyone at that level, to play at their full potential.

In sports, men and women all play by the same rules, but since men and women are not physically the same, having two leagues; men and women, allows the games to be fair and allows everyone to play at their full potential; for the glory of sports and yourself. If you try to force all levels of ability to play together, the best players get bored, and the worse player get frustrated, since the idea that we are all equal is an illusion. Sports is objective reality in a microcosm.

In the news, the Liberal created biological males doped up to look like women, are wanting to play in women's sports based on the shallow Liberal philosophy that what counts is on the surface; if it looks like a girl it must be a girl, but not what is deep down like in sports; biology, physicality, talent and skill level.

Ironically, women; feminists movement, once benefitted by the faulty premise; superficial criteria before talent, i.e, quota system to make it equal? However, women in sports have awaken to the benefits that objective segregation by ability brings via sports; glory of sports. I think the pendulum is about to swing the other way, away from dual standards caused by shallow thinking, back to common sense culture, that can teach everyone to play the sports of life, by one set of rules, with each in our own leagues, pushing our individual ability.

 

[Koldo]

In sports, men and women all play by the same rules, but since men and women are not physically the same, having two leagues; men and women, allows the games to be fair and allows everyone to play at their full potential;

Men are not all physically the same either. Nor are women. Having two leagues benefits a specific group of women (which varies according to the sport), that suddenly can play competitively because of the existence of a women's league. It doesn't make the game fair for every single person. It just allows some women to play competitively.

Am I saying that Women's league shouldn't exist? Nope. Let's just not pretend we are solving all fairness problems with it.

 

[wellwisher]

Men are not all physically the same either. Nor are women. Having two leagues benefits a specific group of women (which varies according to the sport), that suddenly can play competitively because of the existence of a women's league. It doesn't make the game fair for every single person. It just allows some women to play competitively.

Am I saying that Women's league shouldn't exist? Nope. Let's just not pretend we are solving all fairness problems with it.

Sportsmanship is about being able to play at your best, with everyone following one set of rules. This make things predictable and doable. It is hard to play your best, on a regular basis, if one is in a league that is too far over or too far under your ability. If you your ability is too low, you will not get a chance to play. If you are too good, you will deprive others, and being a high scorer, not as glorious. But like the three bears, if the league is just right, you can become a champion on any good day pushing your body to its limits and sometimes amazing yourself and others. Sports tries to help all find their sweet spot. You advance, as you improve.

Women, when confronted by larger biological males in women's sport, suddenly felt the problems created by the artificial placement outside their own league. The biological male in women's sports goes beyond adding a ringer; another league.

Both amateur and professional Sports do not allow drugs since this creates an imbalance in play, since not everyone will do the drugs. Sports is also about staying natural and healthy. Like the three bears, the new women's sports with biological males, became too hard to be comfortable. Trans is all about Chemicals and Surgery, which by itself would disqualify any natural woman in sports. But a dual standard is used, where only trans can do drugs in sports. Liberal tampering, adds dual standards in their own favor, but causes an imbalance in sports so it is not sports anymore.

Say a biological male wanted to play women's sports and was willing to not do any drugs including those which are need to become trans. The male body will be harder to disguise; cheat to win.

If you look at the Biden Administration, many of his appointment are over their heads. They are picked based on shallow criteria like a quota in terms of sex or skin color. VP Harris, was put in charge of immigration, which was not her strong sport. If this was sports, one would recognize levels of talent and choose the right sport and the right league, so the end result is better for both the sportsperson and the sport.

Shallow criteria make it harder for everyone to find their sweet spots, in the sport of life. Even the lowest leagues in sports are fun for those who accept who they are. Others grow from there.

 

[metis]

In the news, the Liberal created biological males doped up to look like women, are wanting to play in women's sports based on the shallow Liberal philosophy that what counts is on the surface; if it looks like a girl it must be a girl, but not what is deep down like in sports; biology, physicality, talent and skill level.

Maybe get your "information" from other than just right-wing sources, OK?

 

[wellwisher]

Maybe get your "information" from other than just right-wing sources, OK?

We do not yet treat sports, like Liberalism treats culture, although they gave it a try. Diversity and inclusion is not how sports works, since both diversity and inclusion are subjective and are not about the needs of sportsmen, sports, and life.

The NBA is mostly tall black men. This does not reflect the diversity of national demographics. It reflects objective criteria such as best scoring and defense. If we tried to apply the shallow criteria of outward diversity, to get equal results for all, the NBA would become downgraded, like culture. You would end up with a few left over ringers and a lot of scrub players. To make it look fair; illusion, you would need to create more than one set of rules; dual standards, to dumb down the best players. It would be an illusion; boring, but you are expected to clap.

Say we start with that; mutant sports. Next, we break the NBA down into more than one league, and allows more people to play, with each league based on objective criteria and one set of rules for all connected to that sport. People would find and be targeted to their natural place, with birds of a feather, until all are having fun; natural based on objectivity, instead of artificial based on subjectivity that nothing to do with sports or the realities of life.

 

[metis]

We do not yet treat sports, like Liberalism treats culture, although they gave it a try. Diversity and inclusion is not how sports works, since both diversity and inclusion are subjective and are not about the needs of sportsmen, sports, and life.

I played in sports almost all my life up until 55 when I had to quit because of so many injuries I accumulated over the years. If one is so worried about getting hurt, maybe they should just stick to playing Parcheesi. Needless to say, I don't fall for nonsensical political correctness regardless as to which side spouts it.

 

[Koldo]

Sportsmanship is about being able to play at your best, with everyone following one set of rules. This make things predictable and doable. It is hard to play your best, on a regular basis, if one is in a league that is too far over or too far under your ability.

One thing is completely unrelated to the other. You can play your best regardless if the league is far over or too under your ability.

If you your ability is too low, you will not get a chance to play. If you are too good, you will deprive others, and being a high scorer, not as glorious. But like the three bears, if the league is just right, you can become a champion on any good day pushing your body to its limits and sometimes amazing yourself and others. Sports tries to help all find their sweet spot. You advance, as you improve.

Who really cares about making leagues "just right"?

Women, when confronted by larger biological males in women's sport, suddenly felt the problems created by the artificial placement outside their own league. The biological male in women's sports goes beyond adding a ringer; another league.

In other words, if someone is much better than someone else then those two people shouldn't be playing in the same league, right? Great, but that's not how it works. I don't remember anyone saying that Michael Phelps shouldn't be allowed to swim with the other guys.

Both amateur and professional Sports do not allow drugs since this creates an imbalance in play, since not everyone will do the drugs.

Not everyone will have the body necessary to compete. Or the time to develop the abilities. Or the money to eat the proper diet. So what?

Sports is also about staying natural and healthy.

Incorrect. Absolutely incorrect. There is NOTHING healthy about highly competitive sports.

Like the three bears, the new women's sports with biological males, became too hard to be comfortable. Trans is all about Chemicals and Surgery, which by itself would disqualify any natural woman in sports. But a dual standard is used, where only trans can do drugs in sports. Liberal tampering, adds dual standards in their own favor, but causes an imbalance in sports so it is not sports anymore.

Sports are imbalanced. Period. And the medications/surgeries that transwomen use don't give them an edge. If anything, it is the opposite.

 

[Callisto]

In other words, if someone is much better than someone else then those two people shouldn't be playing in the same league, right? Great, but that's not how it works. I don't remember anyone saying that Michael Phelps shouldn't be allowed to swim with the other guys.

Not remotely the same thing. Sports leagues in question are sex-segregated for a reason. There is a performance and physical range within which individuals of the same sex fall into. Just like there are age-segregated competitions and differently-abled competitions.

It's one thing for Michael Phelps to compete against other adult males in men's competitions, it's a whole other thing if he entered kids' swimming competitions or the Special Olympics. No one would think it doesn't matter if he's much better than the other competitors, he should be allowed to compete in those divisions too.

 

[Augustus]

think the pendulum is about to swing the other way, away from dual standards caused by shallow thinking, back to common sense culture, that can teach everyone to play the sports of life, by one set of rules, with each in our own leagues, pushing our individual ability.

British Cycling just announced they will now have “open” and “female” categories which imo is the right way to do it.

Explicitly making it a sex based category, not a gender based category removes a lot of the sillier objections.

Most sports will follow sooner or later I guess as the more the issue is studied, the more the science shows regarding retaining advantage post transition, increased injury risk to females etc.

 

[Koldo]

Not remotely the same thing. Sports leagues in question are sex-segregated for a reason. There is a performance and physical range within which individuals of the same sex fall into. Just like there are age-segregated competitions and differently-abled competitions.

It's one thing for Michael Phelps to compete against other adult males in men's competitions, it's a whole other thing if he entered kids' swimming competitions or the Special Olympics. No one would think it doesn't matter if he's much better than the other competitors, he should be allowed to compete in those divisions too.

If Michael Phelps was not so far ahead his "peers", can you kindly explain how he was able to consistently win medals (and mostly gold medals) in international competitions across different categories?

 

[Callisto]

If Michael Phelps was not so far ahead his "peers", can you kindly explain how he was able to consistently win medals (and mostly gold medals) in international competitions across different categories?

I take it you missed what I stated previously: "There is a performance and physical range within which individuals of the same sex fall into." He competed in men's competitions not any and all competitions.

Not sure why this is difficult to comprehend. Do you think he should enter competitions designated for children and the disabled too? Yes or no.

 

[Augustus]

If Michael Phelps was not so far ahead his "peers", can you kindly explain how he was able to consistently win medals (and mostly gold medals) in international competitions across different categories?

You answered that yourself “mostly” gold medals, and only in disciplines he was good enough to enter in the first place.

Can’t believe people still think the Michael Phelps gambit is some kind of rhetorical tour de force

 

[Koldo]

I take it you missed what I stated previously: "There is a performance and physical range within which individuals of the same sex fall into." He competed in men's competitions not any and all competitions.

I didn't miss that. What I am saying is that Phelps was an outlier to the "performance and physical range within which individuals of the same sex fall into". Just like a transwomen is going to be (or rather, may be) an outlier when she competes in women's league. If nobody cared about the existence of an outlier like Phelps, why are people suddenly caring about transwomen being outliers?

Not sure why this is difficult to comprehend. Do you think he should enter competitions designated for children and the disabled too? Yes or no.

I think we ought to be consistent. Either we care about fairness or we do not care about fairness. As for me, I wouldn't care if Phelps competed against children, because I see it as a losing battle to try to convince people that sports should be fair.

 

[Koldo]

You answered that yourself “mostly” gold medals, and only in disciplines he was good enough to enter in the first place.

Can’t believe people still think the Michael Phelps gambit is some kind of rhetorical tour de force

Great, then if a trans athlete doesn't always win the gold medal, only the vast majority of the time, it is all fair. Awesome.

 

[Augustus]

Great, then if a trans athlete doesn't always win the gold medal, only the vast majority of the time, it is all fair. Awesome.

Elite born male athletes will always win against elite born female athletes (in athletic sports)

100% of the time.

That’s the point.

Glad we agree on that, and you realise why the Phelps gambit sucks as an argument

 

[Callisto]

I didn't miss that. What I am saying is that Phelps was an outlier to the "performance and physical range within which individuals of the same sex fall into". Just like a transwomen is going to be (or rather, may be) an outlier when she competes in women's league. If nobody cared about the existence of an outlier like Phelps, why are people suddenly caring about transwomen being outliers?

No, not just like. Again, you choose to ignore that within the same sex, there will be a range of performance with a determinable average among competitors who are akin to each other because of their biological sex. The same is true in women and among age divisions. If sex or age or disability didn't matter, there would be no divisions. If Michael Phelps is toward the high end of the range for biological males, that's well beyond that of women and children. Katie Ledecky has 14 gold medals her best times are well below Phelps.

I think we ought to be consistent. Either we care about fairness or we do not care about fairness. As for me, I wouldn't care if Phelps competed against children, because I see it as a losing battle to try to convince people that sports should be fair.

And how, exactly, do you define fairness? Fairness comes from grouping people by similarities, hence the divisions that exist.

 

[Augustus]

Great, then if a trans athlete doesn't always win the gold medal, only the vast majority of the time, it is all fair. Awesome.

A record-setting ultra-marathon runner has been disqualified from her most recent race following allegations that she cheated by using a car for part of it.

Scottish ultra-marathon runner Joasia Zakrzewski placed third in the GB Ultras Manchester to Liverpool race that took place on April 7 in the United Kingdom but has since been disqualified following inconsistent tracking data that was taken during the race, according to officials.

Ultra-marathon runner disqualified after allegedly cheating by using car in race

A record-setting ultra-marathon runner has been disqualified from her most recent race following allegations that she cheated by using a car for part of it.

abcnews.go.com

She only finished 3rd! Why is anyone complaining? She should be allowed to use a car as long as she doesn’t win.

Not allowing people to use cars in ultra marathons is unfitpeoplephobic

 

[Koldo]

Elite born male athletes will always win against elite born female athletes (in athletic sports)

100% of the time.

That’s the point.

Glad we agree on that, and you realise why the Phelps gambit sucks as an argument

You are factually wrong.
Transgender California high school runner's 2nd-place finish in girls race draws backlash

Glad to have been of help.

Edit: Actually, I take that back since you have mentioned elite specifically. It is going to be very tricky to address this because there are not many elite trans athletes in the first place.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Incorrect. Absolutely incorrect. There is NOTHING healthy about highly competitive sports.

How do you figure that, and what do you mean by 'highly competitive', as opposed to just 'competitive'?

 

[Koldo]

No, not just like. Again, you choose to ignore that within the same sex, there will be a range of performance with a determinable average among competitors who are akin to each other because of their biological sex. The same is true in women and among age divisions. If sex or age or disability didn't matter, there would be no divisions. If Michael Phelps is toward the high end of the range for biological males, that's well beyond that of women and children. Katie Ledecky has 14 gold medals her best times are well below Phelps.

He is not just at the high end. He is an outlier.

And how, exactly, do you define fairness? Fairness comes from grouping people by similarities, hence the divisions that exist.

If after grouping up by similarities you notice a few people win consistently, what conclusion do you reach? Obviously that there is something off with your grouping. Those few guys obviously are not that similar to the rest.