Women becoming more submissive?

[Circle_One]

There seems to be a trend in which women are becoming more submissive and seeking traditional values opposed to the continued pursuit of female equality. Do you agree? I'm not sure myself, but certain discussions I've had recently and things I've observed make me wonder if women are moving slightly away from their own liberation.

Now, the following are just a few personal observations (including young women I've talked to in person/dated and society observed in my neck of the woods as well as through the media), so this is by no means a comprehensive study. Anyway, here are some things I've noticed:

• Girls on college campuses whose hobbies include knitting, not to mention my cousin in junior high and her little girl-friends who do the same.
• Girls eager to cook for "the boys"; eager to demonstrate their baking skills.
• Several young married women who let their husbands make almost all the decisions, offering their own input only once in a while.
• My own dates who like me to take charge of everything, like plans, reservations, directions...and dominant behavior in other ways.
• The continued (perhaps enhanced) objectification of women which they accept for the most part...the high heels, the v-string panties, the shaving of specific patches of hair, make-up/hair style obsession (nothing new), radical (unnecessary) surgeries--all of which seems to say that their sole purpose here is to look pretty for us guys.
• Female college grads seeking a husband who will "take care of them" (preferably wealthy).

If this is true, why do you think it's happening? Have they become sick of the responsibilities that come with freedom? Are they tired of dating men who are not masculine enough (note the feminization of men by media persuasion...girly-man models and skinny, effeminate rock stars)? Is this just the newer generation's rebellion against their women's-lib parents?

Or do you think that nothing really changed (aside from laws)...that women have always been naturally submissive?

Hmm.. ok, I've got a few points to say on the subject.

• Girls on college campuses whose hobbies include knitting, not to mention my cousin in junior high and her little girl-friends who do the same.

I don't know too many women who knit (I certainly don't), but I do find it a girly thing to do, however, I don't necessarily see it as a submissive thing to do.

Girls eager to cook for "the boys"; eager to demonstrate their baking skills.

Well, I don't cook (my roommate does all the cooking in our house), and I hate to cook (I much prefer to have a boy cook for me), but I will say that my roommate and I have a running joke with one another about when we really like a boy. To show how far our crush has gone and how much we like the boy, we often say "Man, I like him so much, I want to do his laundry!" (Because we're both overly not domestic in that sense). So to us, saying that is kind of us joking about submitting back to the old 50's sense of what a "woman" was, for the love of a male. It is, of course, only a joke.

My own dates who like me to take charge of everything, like plans, reservations, directions...and dominant behavior in other ways.

I'm not sure if I would consider this submission either, for most women (however, I do consider it so for me, but I'll get into that in a minute), but I do think it's the social "norm" that women have become used to and that it stems back to the old days when women were the submissive party in a relationship.

For myself, however, I hate, hate, HATE having a man pay for me and my reasoning is this: I pride myself on being a strong, independent woman, completely capable of taking care of myself and not needing the aid of a man (I'm slightly feminist). So when a man pays for me, it makes me feel weak, submissive and dependent on him.

I actually got in trouble by my man this past Tuesday because we went out and he kept paying for me, for everything we did and it was annoying me, so we went to the bar and before he could, I paid for the pitcher he ordered and he got upset and said "You know, you don't have to pull this tough, independent, feminist schtick with me, so just stop and let ME pay for once!" Because normally when we go out, I always pay, for both him and I. I feel, if I need something, I'll pay for it myself, if I don't have the money for it, then I don't really need it. I really dislike having a guy pay for me, but I love paying for them (which has caused many problems in my relationships).

Ok, I think this post is getting pretty long, so I'll respond more later, I just have one more thing to say:

Are they tired of dating men who are not masculine enough (note the feminization of men by media persuasion...girly-man models and skinny, effeminate rock stars)?

I'm dating a skinny, effeminate Rock Star right now hahaha, I love them! He's WAY more feminine than me.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Okay fine, I apologize to all the knitters out there. Needlework makes you powerful and liberated. Please don't stab me with your crochet needles.

It's not the crochet needles you have to worry about...an angry woman with a size 24 tapestry needle, however, is a formidable adversary.

 

[almifkhar]

feminism did more to undermind women than most of us realize. woopie do, i can go to college and major in what ever i want, and woopie do, i can work in what ever field i want to, but i still earn less then men. woopie do, i can obtain a divorce, but i am more likely to raise children all by myself with out any backing from the father, let alone a check from him. some things are just the nature of a woman, cooking, knitting, and wanting a man who will take care of us is simply the nature of woman. none of these things are submissive at all.what i find submissive is when a woman allows a man to take total control of things. to go out and buy clothes which men will drewl over you is submissive. to change ones appearence so you can look younger so your man wont cheat on you is submissive.when a woman works, pays for everything in the house, has to come home from work and take care of every need of the kids and man, has to cook and clean when she comes home from work, and buys everything her man wants and needs is nothing but a slave. i think feminism made women unhappier than they were to begin with because they didn't challange men where they needed to be challenged. we women in the west have never forced a man to be a responsible man and that is the problem and we will never be equal until we do this. there is nothng submissive about a woman staying home and being a mom and wife, so long as she keeps her man in line.my little secret is that i allow my man to think he is the captin and assert my dominance when it is needed. in the end, i am the one who makes the decissions around here in my castle, i just allow him to think it was his idea, because it is important for a man to feel like he is a man, this is what keeps things in ballance. and the lack of ballance is what is wrong with our society.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

i just allow him to think it was his idea, because it is important for a man to feel like he is a man, this is what keeps things in ballance. and the lack of ballance is what is wrong with our society.

Because a man can't feel like a man if he accepts that his wife has a good idea and act upon it without first being manipulated into thinking it was his own? :sarcastic
Yeah, go balance.

 

[SPLogan]

Are "liberation" and "submission" antonyms?

Can't a woman be both liberated and submissive?

Submission does not mean "lack of freedom." Submission is something that a person can chose out of respect and love. Right?

Does "liberated" mean the same thing as "emancipated?" I never hear people talk of "women's emancipation."