Women and fashion in the USA

[Riders]

It seems like every year every decade we get closer and closer to having nudity legalized LOL. More sexually you know stimulating lots of body parts hanging out tighter outfits for women.


The thing is I am very conflicted on this issue. Its like I was in a church Pentecostal church that restricted the dress code of everyone but mostly women. We had to wear our hair long and we either teased it up on top or braided it wore it a bun whatever but it had to be long.

No jewelry was allowed no makeup although some churches did allow foundation and powder to be warn, no slacks although some churches allowed us to wear leggings or gouchos something like that skorts.

But it was legalistic repressive almost abusive.So I am all for us ladies to have all the freedom tow ear what we want. As long as we are comfortable. But is there any moral thing we should wear our clothes any certain way at all?

Sometimes I see women who are dressed very provocative and I think hmm she is assertive confident and holds herself well. But at other times and I pointing the finger here directly at me too. I have done this in the past, at other times i have seem some women who do not positive and assertive maybe the opposite like her sexuality comes from a negative place a way to get negative attention from men power women.

But its really not for me to judge.

But like I heard at a 12 step meeting the other day this guy was saying he was trying not to sexually objectify women anymore but he was sitting in a car with a friend who was stopped at a stop sign or maybe they were in a parkinlot somewhere where they were watching people watch buy and a bunch of different women walked by and the other guy was like saying every other minute something to the effect of:

WHOA look at that did you see that babe whoa babe! I am just wondering after all this time Gloria Stinemn women's rights rights and after all these years are we really coming up and being more affirmative for women's rights or has our sexually explicit clothes become anther way of us going back to becoming sex slaves to men like we were in the 60s?

Is the more revealing clothes for women more positive for our self esteem or it taking us back to the 50s? Sex slaves for men.

Part of me wants to say you know why is it that I cant sit there sit in a car going whoa look at that lookign at male hotties but theres way less male hotties around because too many men still think smoking and weighing in at 40 pounds is fine for that man but the women needs to be a fashion model?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

People should wear what they want but keep it appropriate to the situation. You wouldn't wear a tube top and mini skirt to a funeral but you wouldn't wear a business suit to the beach, either.

 

[Nakosis]

People should wear what they want but keep it appropriate to the situation. You wouldn't wear a tube top and mini skirt to a funeral but you wouldn't wear a business suit to the beach, either.

I've spoken with a couple of women whom to me were wearing pretty revealing clothing. Initially I thought they were trying to attract attention, but they were friends so confided in me that they simply felt more comfortable that way.

Unfortunately I think most men see that as advertising. Now I understand that just like me, they simply want to feel comfortable in what they wear.

 

[dianaiad]

It's all the fault of men. All of it.

They can't help it, poor dears....their 'little heads' do all their thinking for them when in the company of women, because all they can think of is sex, how to get some, who to get it with, and, well, sex.

Every patriarchal restrictive clothing decision forced upon women is the result of men who can't think of anything but sex but don't want to blame their own lack of ability to think for it. So they blame the women. Mind you, that's a bit like blaming the ocean for the wet swimsuit one gets when one dives into it, but I've never known men to be logical on this particular topic.

So women....wear what you want. Don't advertise if that's what you think you are doing, but don't worry about 'attracting the wrong notice' by the way you dress, either. You're going to attract that sort of notice no matter what.

I mean, really....y'all know that I'm a fusty old English/literature teacher, right? Well, I've read a LOT of books, and waaaay back when women wore long skirts, long sleeves, high necked blouses and many layers of petticoats, stays, chemises and such, the men were fascinated and turned on by ANKLES. There is nothing we can do, as women, to stop what men think when they see us, positive or negative.

Poor dears.

So....wear what you feel comfortable in. Be warm, be cool, be free and wear pants, or formal and wear skirts. Please yourself.

One other thing: don't let other WOMEN tell you what to wear, either.

 

[Riders]

Ok I agree with all that. But let me ask this. ARe shopping stores and brand names maybe advertising trying to sell more revealing clothes because they are using women as bait because they know men will buy it for women and they make more money by puching more revealing clothes.

Hey if we make this more popular men are the ones who spend the most money the more sexualize the clothes and men like it the more both and women are going to buy . Are we being sexually exploited by the stores and brand names and the culture .....................that would make us what essentially prostitutes or bait for men to spend money? Sexualy exploitation and sense porn is addictive and sex is well they are kind of selling the addiction as well.

I mean Our children are being exploited too because they are sexualizing kids clothes more and more too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's all the fault of men. All of it.

They can't help it, poor dears....their 'little heads' do all their thinking for them when in the company of women, because all they can think of is sex, how to get some, who to get it with, and, well, sex.

Every patriarchal restrictive clothing decision forced upon women is the result of men who can't think of anything but sex but don't want to blame their own lack of ability to think for it. So they blame the women. Mind you, that's a bit like blaming the ocean for the wet swimsuit one gets when one dives into it, but I've never known men to be logical on this particular topic.

So women....wear what you want. Don't advertise if that's what you think you are doing, but don't worry about 'attracting the wrong notice' by the way you dress, either. You're going to attract that sort of notice no matter what.

I mean, really....y'all know that I'm a fusty old English/literature teacher, right? Well, I've read a LOT of books, and waaaay back when women wore long skirts, long sleeves, high necked blouses and many layers of petticoats, stays, chemises and such, the men were fascinated and turned on by ANKLES. There is nothing we can do, as women, to stop what men think when they see us, positive or negative.

Poor dears.

So....wear what you feel comfortable in. Be warm, be cool, be free and wear pants, or formal and wear skirts. Please yourself.

One other thing: don't let other WOMEN tell you what to wear, either.

Oh please. I have been with enough attractive women to know what work they go through to look that way at times. Women know what men like and they dress accordingly. You can't blame men if women cooperate. For example, I like most men really like breasts. Women know this. That is why push up bras are big sellers from Victoria's Secret. You can't tell me a bra that squeezes the boobies in and up is more comfortable than a bra that just supports. It is not about comfort, it is about attracting the views of others.

 

[sun rise]

It's all the fault of men. All of it.

It's all the fault of women. All of it.

Now that is rightly considered blatant and utter sexism when a male says that about women. And if it's blatant and utter sexism for a guy to say it, it's the same when a woman says it.

 

[Jainarayan]

Call me biased, for reasons that should be obvious by now, even as a gay man, I think there is not much more feminine and beautiful than this...

 

[SomeRandom]

Oh please. I have been with enough attractive women to know what work they go through to look that way at times. Women know what men like and they dress accordingly. You can't blame men if women cooperate. For example, I like most men really like breasts. Women know this. That is why push up bras are big sellers from Victoria's Secret. You can't tell me a bra that squeezes the boobies in and up is more comfortable than a bra that just supports. It is not about comfort, it is about attracting the views of others.

Well you’d be surprised. It’s more complicated than merely “attracting attention.” Society seems to perpetuate social anxiety in humans. For women this may manifest as something like wanting to look sexy in order to feel confident.
I have a cousin who will not leave the house without wearing makeup and revealing clothing. She does not do this attract men, quite the contrary. She does this because she has low self esteem and thinks herself ugly otherwise.
(Which is certainly not the case.)
Not everything is about sex. Or at least not everything is specifically directly about sex. Sexual expression and clothing can and is a legitimate way people feel empowered. Whether that is a push up bra because a woman feels insecure about the size of her breasts, or a man dressing in a fancy suit to impress people around him and feel powerful.

 

[Riders]

Well you’d be surprised. It’s more complicated than merely “attracting attention.” Society seems to perpetuate social anxiety in humans. For women this may manifest as something like wanting to look sexy in order to feel confident.
I have a cousin who will not leave the house without wearing makeup and revealing clothing. She does not do this attract men, quite the contrary. She does this because she has low self esteem and thinks herself ugly otherwise.
(Which is certainly not the case.)
Not everything is about sex. Or at least not everything is specifically directly about sex. Sexual expression and clothing can and is a legitimate way people feel empowered. Whether that is a push up bra because a woman feels insecure about the size of her breasts, or a man dressing in a fancy suit to impress people around him and feel powerful.

Yes true but doesn't make it ok either. So the market sells it makes it look like your only ok on the outside if your waist line is a certain number so it plays on the self esteem of teens and so we have many anorexic and bulimic kids and if your sexually provacative in dress. There it sells more and we get addicted they make more money.

 

[Riders]

I will say this. I have seen women dress provacativly and have a high self esteem, take for instance exercise trainers, sometimes they go skimpy because they want to encourage folks t lose weight and have confidence. On the other hand they could just see it as the best way to sell themselves and make money.

But I am affected negatively nor feel embarrassed around women who get a lot of attention from men so much if they don't do it for that reason. But sometimes I have met some women and let me say I use to well to some degree earlier on abit like this too, I wanted sexualized everything because sex was negative for me.

If I see a woman like this kind of sensualizing everything coming off sexy quite a bit hanging onto men and it seems negative I might space myself out from her.It could be negative for me.

But when I use weigh 350 I was really sensitive about this. Christians who come off sensual make me feel real negative because i know women in my old church who use to use their femininity to flirt to get guys into church.

I use to have a homosexual man who lived with me for awhile . I let him live for free we were friend for about 6 months.
Anyways Raymond decided I would be his FH I wont say the word and his gay male friend had one too.She was an ex drug addict who quit drugs through the church. She went to a nondenominational church. She was really trying to use her sensuality to seduce the guys into being heterosexual with her and joining the church.That was my take on her and still is.


She did not like me, she thought I was a bad witness to Raymond I was not in church. She wanted to replace me.
Not only that but she gave her testimony about Jesus and how she got off drugs to all 3 of us. She had lost a lot of weight and uh yea she had looks that would get to any guy who had eyes put it that and she was very very provacative, even her testimony embarrassed me.

Anyways she ruined everything for her. But looking back I wished she had ruined it for me because Raymond was on hard drugs really he wasn't healthy for me to be around.

Anyways I was sleeping on the couch the guys were on the floor in her house and she was in her bedroom. She came prancing out when they were asleep in her underwear and embarrassed the crap out of me it as humiliating and shockingly insensitive to me, she was wrong to do it.

SHe got in the middle of them and snuggled up with them the rest of the night TObecontinued

 

[Riders]

So in the morning I spoke to Raymond privately and confronted him, but he said it was her sign that particular astrology sign tended to be sexual and I was wrong. O thought he might break up with me over it and take her as his thingy.


But the next day I went out with Ray and his guy friend and uh by that time his guyfriend had fired her as his friend and started looking for a new apartment moved away from quit talking to her, HE WAS MAD MAD. HE was saying "She was all in my face breathing on me snuggling with breaking my boundaries all over the place I was disgusted "he was ticked off.

My friend who was conservative Christian told me I was going to hell because i got in the way of God acting in their lives and receiving the Christian witness. I beg your pardon? I did no such thing. If a guy is trully Homosexual and that guy was he would never allow for that type of behavior. There was no witness she could give him to change him from being homosexual sorry.

 

[dianaiad]

It's all the fault of women. All of it.

Now that is rightly considered blatant and utter sexism when a male says that about women. And if it's blatant and utter sexism for a guy to say it, it's the same when a woman says it.

Perhaps.

It's also true.

Women do not, after all, determine the fashion choices of men, either now nor in the past. We CERTAINLY have never had veto rights in patriarchal religious cultures. I mean, really....look at what a good Muslim family wears.

There are quite a few around me; lovely folk, mostly, but the thing is, the men and boys can't be told from any western man in the vicinity....but the WOMEN wear the scarves, the long sleeved tops and the ankle length pants/skirts.

I'll let you call me 'sexist' when the women can make the MEN wear scarves and/or a bhurka to proclaim their modesty.

OR

Hire them in restaurants where one of the requirements for employment is the ability to hold a quarter under important flippy bits.

Or at Hooters, specifically, where the waitresses are called 'models,' and therefore can be hired on the basis of looks...and where they only have uniforms in small, extra small and extra extra small. except of course for the t-shirts.

Mind you, there ARE male strippers, but that's a fairly recent phenomenon....

As for me, I'm a proponent of 'we should deal with what exists, not what we wish exists."

You can call me a sexist if *I* cared two hoots (OK, sorry...) about what sex person I hire, deal with, buy from or work with. I don't.

On the other hand, as a woman who has had to deal with real sexism and the 'clothing' thing, You can understand that I'm not all THAT impressed with your mini-outrage here.

You want SEXISM? Try going to school in the winter where the guys can wear warm pants and socks, but the girls have to wear skirts and bare legs. Try having your high school counselor tell you that you shouldn't take classes that prepare you to go to a university on a science path because a; you are a guuurl, and b: because, since you are a guurl and can't play on the football team, you wouldn't get the scholarships anyway. Take shorthand and be a secretary, until you can marry the boss. That has changed a lot, thank heavens.

Until then, take your 'sexism' and put it.....hmnnnn....under a hijab and wear it.

 

[sun rise]

Perhaps.

It's also true.

Women do not, after all, determine the fashion choices of men, either now nor in the past. We CERTAINLY have never had veto rights in patriarchal religious cultures. I mean, really....look at what a good Muslim family wears.

There are quite a few around me; lovely folk, mostly, but the thing is, the men and boys can't be told from any western man in the vicinity....but the WOMEN wear the scarves, the long sleeved tops and the ankle length pants/skirts.

I'll let you call me 'sexist' when the women can make the MEN wear scarves and/or a bhurka to proclaim their modesty.

OR

Hire them in restaurants where one of the requirements for employment is the ability to hold a quarter under important flippy bits.

Or at Hooters, specifically, where the waitresses are called 'models,' and therefore can be hired on the basis of looks...and where they only have uniforms in small, extra small and extra extra small. except of course for the t-shirts.

Mind you, there ARE male strippers, but that's a fairly recent phenomenon....

As for me, I'm a proponent of 'we should deal with what exists, not what we wish exists."

You can call me a sexist if *I* cared two hoots (OK, sorry...) about what sex person I hire, deal with, buy from or work with. I don't.

On the other hand, as a woman who has had to deal with real sexism and the 'clothing' thing, You can understand that I'm not all THAT impressed with your mini-outrage here.

You want SEXISM? Try going to school in the winter where the guys can wear warm pants and socks, but the girls have to wear skirts and bare legs. Try having your high school counselor tell you that you shouldn't take classes that prepare you to go to a university on a science path because a; you are a guuurl, and b: because, since you are a guurl and can't play on the football team, you wouldn't get the scholarships anyway. Take shorthand and be a secretary, until you can marry the boss. That has changed a lot, thank heavens.

Until then, take your 'sexism' and put it.....hmnnnn....under a hijab and wear it.

That's all very true.

 

[dianaiad]

That's all very true.

Well, darn.

Here I have a good, solid, case of PO'd and you go and agree with me. You're no fun.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes true but doesn't make it ok either. So the market sells it makes it look like your only ok on the outside if your waist line is a certain number so it plays on the self esteem of teens and so we have many anorexic and bulimic kids and if your sexually provacative in dress. There it sells more and we get addicted they make more money.

The market exists because of culture. If there was no anxiety in human nature, societal/cultural pressures wouldn’t feed into them and capitalism wouldn’t......well capitalise on that.
Besides you Americans have a pretty bad attitude towards sex in general. I mean so do we, but you guys. Hoo boy!

 

[Skwim]

A young woman I know was once asked why she occasionally wore sexy clothing, Her answer was, "It makes me feel sensual." I wasn't present at the conversation, but thinking about it, I applaud her openness and grit

. .

 

[SomeRandom]

Perhaps.

It's also true.

Women do not, after all, determine the fashion choices of men, either now nor in the past. We CERTAINLY have never had veto rights in patriarchal religious cultures. I mean, really....look at what a good Muslim family wears.

There are quite a few around me; lovely folk, mostly, but the thing is, the men and boys can't be told from any western man in the vicinity....but the WOMEN wear the scarves, the long sleeved tops and the ankle length pants/skirts.

I'll let you call me 'sexist' when the women can make the MEN wear scarves and/or a bhurka to proclaim their modesty.

OR

Hire them in restaurants where one of the requirements for employment is the ability to hold a quarter under important flippy bits.

Or at Hooters, specifically, where the waitresses are called 'models,' and therefore can be hired on the basis of looks...and where they only have uniforms in small, extra small and extra extra small. except of course for the t-shirts.

Mind you, there ARE male strippers, but that's a fairly recent phenomenon....

As for me, I'm a proponent of 'we should deal with what exists, not what we wish exists."

You can call me a sexist if *I* cared two hoots (OK, sorry...) about what sex person I hire, deal with, buy from or work with. I don't.

On the other hand, as a woman who has had to deal with real sexism and the 'clothing' thing, You can understand that I'm not all THAT impressed with your mini-outrage here.

You want SEXISM? Try going to school in the winter where the guys can wear warm pants and socks, but the girls have to wear skirts and bare legs. Try having your high school counselor tell you that you shouldn't take classes that prepare you to go to a university on a science path because a; you are a guuurl, and b: because, since you are a guurl and can't play on the football team, you wouldn't get the scholarships anyway. Take shorthand and be a secretary, until you can marry the boss. That has changed a lot, thank heavens.

Until then, take your 'sexism' and put it.....hmnnnn....under a hijab and wear it.

Whoa your school councillor told you not to pursue science because you’re a girl?

(Yes that’s pretty much all I took from your post. Sorry.)

 

[dianaiad]

Whoa your school councillor told you not to pursue science because you’re a girl?

(Yes that’s pretty much all I took from your post. Sorry.)

Yes.

Mind you, that WAS fifty five years ago and things have changed a bit.

I didn't 'pursue science,' not because I was a guurl, but because I'm dyscalculaic. I also didn't do well in shorthand and never became a secretary.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It's all the fault of men. All of it.

Essentially. We assume that women also do not objectify and sexualize men when their secondary sexual characteristics are highlighted--or at least, it doesn't matter that we do. So it's okay for men to dress comfortably or go around in naught but shorts in the summer. But women--can't have them showing off their natural bodies even if they are more comfortable! Someone might (gasp!) sexualize them!

I suppose this comes from a sense of ownership over women. Or a need to control their sexuality. Or both.