Witches Love Devils

[Mike182]

witches love devils ............

do wtiches believe in the devil? just thought id ask that first of all
- some branches of witchcraft do, some do not

i used to be pagan, but it didnt fit with it, then i converted to christianity - i still have strong links with my other pagan friends

they do not love devils, they hate satanists, and they are not being decieved by a devil or satan

my experience is that it is a very personal religion, with a lot of misconceptions and generalisations

 

[turk179]

witches love devils ............

do wtiches believe in the devil? just thought id ask that first of all
- some branches of witchcraft do, some do not

i used to be pagan, but it didnt fit with it, then i converted to christianity - i still have strong links with my other pagan friends

they do not love devils, they hate satanists, and they are not being decieved by a devil or satan

my experience is that it is a very personal religion, with a lot of misconceptions and generalisations

As far as I have been taught, Wicca in general does not believe in the devil or devil like creatures. And Pan is not a devil like creature contrary to some beliefs. I do not believe in the devil or anything associated with Satan or hell. Unfortunately for the craft there are a lot of different beliefs and a very small amount of so called Wiccans put negative connotations to the belief.

 

[Mike182]

As far as I have been taught, Wicca in general does not believe in the devil or devil like creatures. And Pan is not a devil like creature contrary to some beliefs. I do not believe in the devil or anything associated with Satan or hell. Unfortunately for the craft there are a lot of different beliefs and a very small amount of so called Wiccans put negative connotations to the belief.

i think that with all things, the people with the negative voices get herd the most because their the ones shouting about it - most wiccans/pagans/witches are respectable moral people

 

[turk179]

i think that with all things, the people with the negative voices get herd the most because their the ones shouting about it

I agree. Just pick up a newspaper to see that it is true.

 

[kreeden]

Sorry , major mistake ...

 

[Mike182]

I find him amuzing also Turk . A mind like a steel trap , that has rusted shut ...

silly quesion but is that me?

 

[kreeden]

I'm sorry CP , but no I wasn't refering to you . Strange , but I'm not even on the right thread .... I guess that is what happens when one posts before they wake up in the morning ???

I apologize again . I don't normally edit things that I post , but in this case I am going to . I'm not sure how that happened . Similar threads , I guess .

Edited to add : Ok , right thread , but there had been a whole page of posts since the post I was refering too .

Turk posted

You are funny. I like you. Your sense of humor is very unique. It took me a while to figure it out but you are just messing with us.

 

[Professor]

I agree. Just pick up a newspaper to see that it is true.

I have a feeling that Turk is a low level witch perhaps barely in thd 2nd grade.

You see this is a lie. I don't know you Turk so I don't know if you are simply deceived or the deceiver or both.

Pick up a newspaper in the 19th century or show me any book before the 20th century that denotes Witchcraft as NOT worshiping anything evil or devil like creature. Of course, within the occult community.

I'll make it easier, show me 1 source that denies this before 1950 among the occult community.

The notion that Witches DON'T have anything to do with devils is a minority "americanized" conotation. In 1989 with the SRA sites in Mexico with evidence of human sacrifice and torture, the newspaper originally reported these "satanists" as Witches. Cobott had a feminist cow and got the paper to retract the word witch.

Again, the lower grades are polished looking witches that are simply ignorant, the higher grade witches still know that the ultimate source for their craft, is a being that represent the ultimate source of evil.

The Professor

 

[Professor]

Witchcraft's Devil(s)

it appears that there are a lot of low grade initiates (if even that) in here. It appears that several Witches are swallowing the PR that Laurie Cobott started to appeal to the Media. The fact that Witchcraft follows a sort of "Satan" is obvious via history. And the notion that a Satan type figure is a thought from Christainity (ALONE) and since I argued that way thus I must be a Christian is the most ignorant form of reasoning I've heard.

There are "Pagan" Satans from way before Christianity. Virtually EVERY pagan culture prior to Christianity had a view of some sort of superior evil spiritual enemy. It is only via recent decades that some PR Witches think otherwise. Though I believe doh and Projector are sincere, they are simply misinformed and/or deceived by their superiors.

Zoroastrianism has a supreme evil Satan concept (588 B.C.E.)

The Egyptians view of Set was looked at as a supreme evil being as early as the 10th (probably before then) dynasty).

Crowley acknowledged this via his god AIWASS which I assume many of you secretely contribute.

The Parsees, Shintoists, Buddhists and even Hindus acknowledge higher superior evil (satan like) beings.

And even Judaism acknowledges a superior being in Job which was written which is over a dozen centuries before Christ.

I can document this further. But to say that a Satan or whatever name creature of superior evil qualities or is a leader of the evil domain is poof- into existence via the time of Christ is completely stupid.

Cabott and others have started this lie. I do hope that my brother and sister witches in here won't swallow it.

Your Brother,

The Professor

 

[kreeden]

Most European Witchs , I believe , were from the " lower classes " before the 19 century . So many didn't have the skills to write books . Nor the means .

Ok , there were a few that did have the means . But they usually were the rebels of society at the time . Crowley for excample claimed that he was the Great Beast of Revelations , although of course he was not .

Everything said or written has a bias twist to it , which I believe should be taken into account when heard or read . For excample , Jamestown 1978 , where a " Christian leader ", Tim Jones , had his followers give their children poisoned cool-aid . Where they Christians ? Technically yes , they were . Was what they did " Christian " ? No , of course not .

So , what someone may or may not have done several hundred years ago , has little to do with what someone does today .

I have read recipes for " Flying Ointment " { which I doubt many Witchs use today }. Among the things called for was " the fat of an unbaptized baby ". Now , considering that at else two of the herbs used are deadly , I can only assumed that anyone who made this would have enough wisdom to realize that the fat is only a base for the ointment , and any fat could be used . So , why would they say the fat of an unbaptized baby ? Well , there are several possible reasons . Depending upon who actually wrote the recipe down .

 

[kreeden]

There are "Pagan" Satans from way before Christianity.

True ,

Virtually EVERY pagan culture prior to Christianity had a view of some sort of superior evil spiritual enemy.

The second part isn't quite as true through . Many pagan cultures believed in the deul nature of dieties . Although Set was dangerous , he ruled Egypt for a time , as the head diety of the royal family . Most Spiritual believes don't seem the spirita as good or evil so much as being benefical or dangerous , and most often , they are both . It isn't untill after religion comes along to change that view that " satan " often appears .

 

[Fluffy]

Professor, I'm a Wiccan and a witch and I simply do not believe that Satan exists full stop. I cannot speak for any other Wiccan or witch I suppose and if the above belief makes me neither then so be it. I'll still continue to refer to myself as such, however.

 

[Scott1]

** Moved to debate forum

 

[DreamQuickBook]

It is interesting to note that historically Witches and Wiccans worshipped an actually entity or devil. (e.g. Margarett Murray's Book, The Gods of the Witches - 1931). It is interesting to see the PR get swallowed by so many up and coming Witches to buy into the lie otherwise.

Afterall, Zeena Lavey and all of Anton LaVey's female members were called WItches. To take the Laurie Cobott position is in the minority of the world's persepective to say the least.

Viva

First of all, LaVey founded modern Satanism and doesn't speak for neo-pagans and "witches". Secondly, witches have almost always worshipped pagan gods, not devils. You need to read up on the facts before speaking. I would be interested in seeing your sources too. if you have any.

 

[LMS]

Hi
I do not consider myself wiccan, christian or any other religion but find religion an interesting subject. I fell over this post in search for the name of the goat god in pagan religion. I am not thinking of PAN. As far as I am concerned most christian tradisions have a much older pagan origin. Wasn't is Amos/Eros that was fed by a goat and the goats horn fell off and filled up with fruit = Horn of Plenty
The goat, associated with love and sexuality was too much to handle for the christans to be able to celebrate him and they turned his features in to the devils. Correct me if I am wrong, I have no claims of coming with thruth here, I am just looking for the goats name, please. I think it starts with *B* and is a rather long name compared with PAN. Thanks LenaMarie /[email protected]

 

[kreeden]

Welcome LMS .

I'm not sure which name you are looking for , there has been many and many of those were names given by another culture or people then the ones worshipping . Perhaps another can help you out here ?

 

[pandamonk]

History is on your side? Well then, if history is on your side...but hang on, who were the people who traditionally recorded history (especially in the 16's and 17's as you've been quoting)? Wasn't it the church who recorded history, them being the only people who could string a written sentence together? Well then, that's a gaurantee of an unbiased and objective veiwpoint. Seems Professor has us all dead to rights. No arguing with something the church has to say about a religious practice that isn't it's own.

Yeh and in addition to this. Who are the people who tried to burn all libraries down in the middle ages (or whatever) to destroy all evidence of existence before the bible and of un-Christian things? And who is it that, basically, invented the idea of witches in order to kill any non-christians without reason, so they had total control, and could wipe out most other religions? If you wish i will re-read up on this subject and go into great detail(if i can find it that is)

 

[Fluffy]

I do not consider myself wiccan, christian or any other religion but find religion an interesting subject. I fell over this post in search for the name of the goat god in pagan religion. I am not thinking of PAN. As far as I am concerned most christian tradisions have a much older pagan origin. Wasn't is Amos/Eros that was fed by a goat and the goats horn fell off and filled up with fruit = Horn of Plenty

Is it one of these that you are looking for? (who'd have thought their would be a website dedicated to goats?)

http://www.goatweb.com/discover/goats/myths.shtml

 

[Todd]

Hi
I do not consider myself wiccan, christian or any other religion but find religion an interesting subject. I fell over this post in search for the name of the goat god in pagan religion. I am not thinking of PAN. As far as I am concerned most christian tradisions have a much older pagan origin. Wasn't is Amos/Eros that was fed by a goat and the goats horn fell off and filled up with fruit = Horn of Plenty
The goat, associated with love and sexuality was too much to handle for the christans to be able to celebrate him and they turned his features in to the devils. Correct me if I am wrong, I have no claims of coming with thruth here, I am just looking for the goats name, please. I think it starts with *B* and is a rather long name compared with PAN. Thanks LenaMarie /[email protected][/QUOTE]

Was it Amaltheia? I know it doesn't start with a B, but this is the best I could find.

http://www.greecetravel.com/greekmyths/argos13.htm

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The goats name is Baphomet.