Why westren christians Reject the word 'Allah'?

[Glaurung]

Then you are not a Christian, because Allah is the god of Christians as well as Muslims, this has been explained quite clearly in this thread if you had read it.

Why is my Christianity at all contingent upon what you say I ought to believe about Islam and their deity? I make no claims about the identity of Allah as Islam claims it, I only note that what Muslims claim about Allah is mutually exclusive with what my religion claims.

Islam repudiates my religion. It repudiates the belief in the Triune God God as an unforgivable sin. So whatever Muslims believe about Allah, it's not what I believe. The question is therefore irrelevant. (If not meaningless).

 

[Lyndon]

Islam worships the same God you do, you just can't see it that way because of your views about Islam, which seem rather biased IMHO.

 

[Glaurung]

Islam worships the same God you do, you just can't see it that way because of your views about Islam, which seem rather biased IMHO.

I have reason to believe that you're the biased one here.

I know what Muslims believe, and it's contrary to what I believe. Nonetheless, do you have an argument to make? Or do you believe that you can move me with mere assertions?

 

[Lyndon]

Your beliefs don't change what God is, and you both worship the same God.

 

[Glaurung]

Your beliefs don't change what God is, and you both worship the same God.

You should learn to use the quote feature.

But I totally agree with you, God is who God is.

I do not doubt Muslims genuinely believe that God, as they understand him, is the same God as revealed by Judaism and Christianity; it's that Muslims claim so much more than that. They claim that to understand God as Christians understand him is such a grave blasphemy that it constitutes an unforgivable sin. According to Islam, I will burn in Hell precisely because of how I understand God.

To insist then that that we all worship the same god... Well yeah, it may be true in the most nominal sense, but that's rather meaningless. It is fact that Islam and Christianity posit irreconcilable understandings of who and what God is. Sorry, but the two religions are not the same.

 

[Lyndon]

the two religions are not the same, but God is the same!!

 

[Glaurung]

the two religions are not the same, but God is the same!!

But what is claimed about God isn't. How can you not grasp this?

Now, you'll either address my position or continue spouting irrelevant platitudes. I will no longer address the latter.

 

[Lyndon]

Sorry but you don't make the rules.

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

Hello members,
In one article I have read the following:
" If the Arab hordes which swept over the ancient world were not Christians or Jews, then what were they? They were pagans who worshipped a pagan god called Allah and followed pagan rites which were practiced in Arabia long before the religion of Islam evolved.."
So I think that every christian should know this fact concerning Allah,

Often one hears the Arabic word “Allah” being used in discussions regarding Islam. The word “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for Almighty God, and is the same word used by Arabic speaking Christians and Jews. As a matter of fact, the word Allah was in use far before the word God ever came into existence, since English is a relatively new language. If one were to pick up an Arabic translation of the Bible, one would see the word “Allah” being used where the word “God” is used in English. For instance, Arabic speaking Christians say that Jesus is the Son of Allah.

In addition, the Arabic word for God, “Allah”, is quite similar to the word for God in other Semitic languages. For example, the Hebrew word for God is “Elah”. For various reasons, some Christians and Jews mistakenly believe that muslims worship a different God.
I hope this would be useful for narrowing the gap between eastren Christians and westren Christians.

For one, you can't underestimate how ignorant the general public is about religion. It is seriously bad. A lot of people have no real understanding of even basic Islamic beliefs, and thus wouldn't realize that Allah is essentially the same god.

Hell, I explain it all the time to people (he's the same God, but they believe different things about him), and they always disagree with me.

Beyond that, though... yeah, there's no reason you couldn't call the Christian God Allah if you want to. I've even taken to calling the Muslim god "God" more to make the point that it's the same god of Abraham.

EDIT: Allah obviously isn't the direct equivalent of the Holy Trinity, but he's the equivalent of Heavenly Father, which I think is what most people think of when they think of God.

 

[pearl]

Recently Catholic Christians refused permission to refer to God as Allah. And then....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ghouse/who-owns-allah-the-god-th_b_4143551.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0104/Malaysia-Catholics-allowed-to-call-God-Allah-again.-Why-the-fuss

 

[outlawState]

For one, you can't underestimate how ignorant the general public is about religion. It is seriously bad. A lot of people have no real understanding of even basic Islamic beliefs, and thus wouldn't realize that Allah is essentially the same god.

Hell, I explain it all the time to people (he's the same God, but they believe different things about him), and they always disagree with me.

Beyond that, though... yeah, there's no reason you couldn't call the Christian God Allah if you want to. I've even taken to calling the Muslim god "God" more to make the point that it's the same god of Abraham.

EDIT: Allah obviously isn't the direct equivalent of the Holy Trinity, but he's the equivalent of Heavenly Father, which I think is what most people think of when they think of God.

Complete nonsense, I regret.

Allah, Elah, Eloah, etc etc are just names for (the supreme) God, and derive originally from the Canaanite El and thence from the Akkadian & Sumerian Anu (sky god). They are just names. The only issue when it comes to "which God" is the particular revelation of God. Thus in Canaanite Ugarit, El was still part of a pantheon, despite being the supreme god, and bore no proper relation to the biblical El who became from the time of Moses, associated only with the revelation of YHWH, and before that, with personal revelations to Abraham.

The Islamic Allah bears no relation to the Christian Allah, even though they bear the same name vis-a-vis the Arabs. The Islamic Allah is modelled on earlier ba'al type deities, i.e. assimilated with the foreign Hu'bal god of the Kaabah (a moon god), as well as Jewish and 'custom' elements laid down by Mahomet. Hence the moon on Islamic flags. Even the Christian YHWH bears little relation to the Jewish YHWH because of entirely separate theology.

So when it comes to God, what is important is not so much the name, as the revelation it implies. The Islamic revelation denies Jesus as the son of God, as equally as it denies Jesus as God the Son. This was Mahomet's fatal mistake, but not one made by the martyr Servetus put to death by Calvinists (& also so sentenced by Catholics) who owned Jesus as the son of God, but not God the Son.

 

[Lyndon]

Complete nonsense, I regret.

Allah, Elah, Eloah, etc etc are just names for (the supreme) God, and derive originally from the Canaanite El and thence from the Akkadian & Sumerian Anu (sky god). They are just names. The only issue when it comes to "which God" is the particular revelation of God. Thus in Canaanite Ugarit, El was still part of a pantheon, despite being the supreme god, and bore no proper relation to the biblical El who became from the time of Moses, associated only with the revelation of YHWH, and before that, with personal revelations to Abraham.

The Islamic Allah bears no relation to the Christian Allah, even though they bear the same name vis-a-vis the Arabs. The Islamic Allah is modelled on earlier ba'al type deities, i.e. assimilated with the foreign Hu'bal god of the Kaabah (a moon god), as well as Jewish and 'custom' elements laid down by Mahomet. Hence the moon on Islamic flags. Even the Christian YHWH bears little relation to the Jewish YHWH because of entirely separate theology.

So when it comes to God, what is important is not so much the name, as the revelation it implies. The Islamic revelation denies Jesus as the son of God, as equally as it denies Jesus as God the Son. This was Mahomet's fatal mistake, but not one made by the martyr Servetus put to death by Calvinists (& also so sentenced by Catholics) who owned Jesus as the son of God, but not God the Son.

Complete nonsense, I regret!!

 

[outlawState]

Complete nonsense, I regret!!

Are you parroting me? A parrot understands nothing of what it says. You can't converse with it and I won't try conversing with you.

 

[Lyndon]

your claim that 1.6 BIllion people are praying to a made up God and you are praying to the real God doesn't hold water.

 

[Glaurung]

your claim that 1.6 BIllion people are praying to a made up God and you are praying to the real God doesn't hold water.

Rather 1.6 billion hold an understanding of God which is incompatible with the Christian understanding of God. The identity of God isn't the question, it is what is claimed about that God. We do not accept Islam as a legitimate revelation from God, so the question of the Islamic Allah's identity is a red herring because we don't believe in Muhammad's claims to have communicated with God in the first place.

God is God, be we don't accept that God revealed Islam.

Sorry but you don't make the rules.

I do in fact get to determine whether or not I interact with you and the conditions of that interaction. As do you with me. And it's your constant refusal to get the point which makes discussion with you tenuous.

 

[Lyndon]

you point being only Christians deserve any respect????

 

[Glaurung]

you point being only Christians deserve any respect????

I never implied that at all.

I am sure that there are many well meaning Muslims who truly love God, but sincerity alone doesn't make a belief system true. Christianity isn't just a religious moral philosophy, it makes concrete claims about God and His interactions with humanity in history. Islam also makes such claims, some of which explicitly repudiate the very core of Christian doctrine; the divinity of Jesus and our redemption by His death and resurrection. Therefore I reject Islam, but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.

And as for respect, the violence between the two groups is overwhelmingly perpetuated by the Islamic side. What have the Copts (and other middle eastern Christians) done to deserve their treatment?

 

[Lyndon]

more nonsense; More Muslims have been killed by Americans, Than non Muslims killed by Muslims put together

 

[Glaurung]

more nonsense; More Muslims have been killed by Americans, Than non Muslims killed by Muslims put together

Whatever the merits or demerits of American interventions around the world are, it's naked lying to assert a moral equivalence between it what has been happening to Christian communities in Muslim majority countries. Christians are being driven out of the Middle East for the crime of being Christian. And while Muslims are suffering at the hands of the fanatics as well, Islam itself is in no danger of systemic extermination.

If Islamic aggression is a product only of genuine Islamic grievance, then what grievance exactly motivates the bombing of Coptic churches at Easter services?

But of course, you won't answer the question.

 

[Lyndon]

You're obviously ignoring the many atrocities perpetrated on Muslims by Americans and their allies, I understand though, blindness to reality is common with many Christians.