Why We Need The Book of Mormon

[Katzpur]

Of course, but we already have all the revelation we need in the bible. In fact, the Bible reveals all which is to come right through to the end of Christ's 1000 year reign. Everything we need to know has already been provided.

How on earth could you possibly know that? To being win, the writings that are found in our Bible/s today were recorded, preserved, transcribed and translated by human beings; human beings make mistakes. Secondly, the Bible doesn't even claim that it is a complete record of God's dealings with mankind; that is a purely subjective statement on your part. Thirdly, John actually pointed out that if everything Jesus said and did during His ministry had been recorded for future generations, the words would more than fill all of the books in the world. And yet you, like most other Christians, insist that "we already have all the revelation we need." Fourth, the canon we now have (and I'm assuming that the Jehovah's Witnesses' translation of the Bible includes the same books as the KJV does) has changed greatly over the centuries. I'm not even talking about translations; I'm talking about books that have been included or excluded at various points in time over the past nearly 2000 years. Lastly, why in the world would anyone even think that God only spoke to one small group of people in one isolated part of the world and essentially just ignored everybody else?

The way in which the book of more Mormon was given and the person it was given to, and the things contained in it seem very dubious. I really don't believe that it was revelation from Jehovah God.... it does not even follow the same theme as the bible. It holds out a different hope and God's purpose is different in the book of Mormon compared to the bible. It just does not add up.

Really? I'd love to hear your explanation of what the "theme, hope and purpose" taught in the Bible is and what the "theme, hope and purpose" taught in the Book of Mormon is.

It's a good question to ask because only when you see polygamy from the perspective of a woman in a polygamous marriage can you understand why it is wrong.

Jesus said we must 'do to others what you would have them do to you' if you honestly think polygamy is OK to do to a woman, then you, as a Christian, must now be willing to let your wife likewise do it. And if you would not want her to do that to you then you should no do it to her either. Otherwise how can you say you are living by Christ's laws? You can't unless you are willing to let your wife take other husband's.

All of this makes sense only if polygamous marriages are only about sex. God evidently approved of a number of His Old Testament prophets having more than one wife, while no women ever had more than one husband. Of course, nobody really wants to address that topic. (Note: I'm not arguing in favor of polygamy, by the way. I'm just saying that your understanding and interpretation of what polygamy was all about are kind of skewed and very, very oversimplified.)

 

[Norman]

polygamy goes way back ***staff edit***

Norman: Hi BummerBeavis, I am assuming that you are referring to Joseph Smith. You actually proved a point that polygyny does go way back. The
LDS Church did not create it. You really need to read the whole story of when Joseph first received the revelation and how he felt about it at first and what transpired into a slow process of it's practice among our people.

There was "Primogeniture" which is the state of being the firstborn of the children of the same parents an exclusive right of inheritance belonging to the eldest son

Old Testament Rules on Polygyny
Lev 18:7,8: 20:11, Deu 22:30; 27:20..no intercourse with your mother or father’s other wives.
Lev 18:18…do not take your wife’s sister as one of your wives.
Ex 21:10…second wife is to be treated the same as the first.
Due 21:15-17…regarding inheritance, a father is not to show partiality to the son of his favorite wife.
Lev19:20…rule regarding a slave girl who is recognized as a man’s concubine.

Old Testament Polygynynist’s-were godly men
Lamech (Gen 4:19, 23)…2 wives.
Abraham (Gen 16:251-6)…atleast 2 wives and at least 2 concubines.
Jacob (Gen 29,30)…2 wives and 2 concubines.
Essu (Gen 26:34; 28:9; 36:2)…5 wives.
Moses (Ex 2:21 called by God to free the Hebrews from Egypt…Num 12:1…2 wives.
Gideon (Jdg 8:30, 31 …called by God to lead Israel…many wives and 1 concubine.
Jair (Jdg 10:3)…Leader of Israel…had 30 sons.
Izban (Jdg 12:9)…leader of Israel…30 sons and 30 daughters’.
Abdon (Jdg 12:13,14)…leader of Israel…had 40 sons.
Saul ( 2 Sam 12:8)…unnamed and unnumbered wives.
David (1 Sam 18:27; 25:43; 2 Sam 3:2-5; 2:2; 5:13-16; 11:26, 27; 1 Chr 3:1-9)….7 wives named, others unnamed, and concubines. All that David did was right except in the case of Uriah 1 Igs 15:5. Saul’s wives were given to him by Lord (2 Sam 12:8).
Elkanah (1 Sam 1:2)…the prophet Samuel’s father….2 wives.
Solomon (1 Kings 3:1; 11:3)…700 wives and 300 concubines.
Judah (1 Chr 2:3)…2 wives.
Caleb (1 Chr 2:18-50)…2 wives and 2 concubines.
Ashur (1 Chr 4:5)…2 wives.
Shaharaim (1 Chr 8:8)…atleast 2 wives.
Rehoboam (2 Chr 11:21)…18 wives, and 60 concubines.
Abijah (1 Chr 13:31)…King of Judah, 14 wives.
Joash (2 Chr 24:3)…King of Judah, 2 wives chosen for him by the priest Jehoiada.
Hosea (Hos 1:2; 3:1-3)…2 wives commanded by the Lord.

Polygyny in The Bible:

The practice of Polygyny in the Old Testament is well known. It is asserted that in the Bible, while Polygyny was practiced, it was
Never approved, that it was a sin, merely allowed, or perhaps just Overlooked. Or the person has to explain it away, because they fear
Polygyny and do not understand it.

This point of view finds no merit or support from available sources or scholarly research . The common conclusion among Hebrew scholars is that:
In the Mosaic law Polygyny is clearly regarded as a normal and licit practice.
Although among the common people it was probably never very widespread and sometimes even quite rare. Nowhere in the Old Testament is this form of marriage called into question. The one and only admonition against the acquisition of too many wives (Duet 17:17) is not an attack upon the institution of Polygyny: however, it is, if we take account of the context, simply a warning against an abuse-against the King’s taking to many wives, foreign wives specifically, because they would turn his heart toward their foreign gods (1 Kings 11:1-8.)

Adultery could be committed only between persons who were not validly and licitly married to each other; and, of course, Polygyny marriages was no less valid and licit than monogamous marriage. The Mosaic Law gave equal recognition to both types of marriage and usually made no distinction between the two although there were severe penalties for adultery (Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-23), It is Nowhere suggested in the Bible that there were any sanctions against Jewish Polygyny. (Eugene Hillman, Polygamy Reconsidered (N.Y.: Orbis Books, 1975_ 145.)
Solomon, the most married man in the OT, is not condemned for his plural marriages but only for his marriages to foreign women (Nehemiah 13:223-27; 1 Kings 11:1-8).

Monogamy the rule, Polygyny the Exception
Polygyny and monogamy were considered equally valid, with monogamy the more common form of marriage.
“Polygyny was widespread in ancient Israel; (marriage with more than one women) rather than polyandry (marriage with more than one man)…
the general practice of monogamy in the biblical records cannot be denied. It is evident in the OT, and it is regularly presupposed in the NT…Many of the Hebrew laws strongly imply this form of marriage (Exod 20:17; 21:5; Lev. 18:8; 16, 20:20:10; 21:13; Num 5:112; Duet 5:21; 22:22: 24:5, etc.) (George Arthur Buttrick, Interpreter’s Bible Dictionary (Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1962) 3:280, 281.)

Levirate Law Contributes to Polygyny
The levirate marriage (from the Lat. Levir, brother-in-law) refers to the marriage of man with his deceased brother’s widow in the event of his dying childless.
The widow was not to remarry outside the family and the unmarred brother was to perform the duties of a husband to her to raise up children to the deceased, in order to perpetuate his name in Israel. If the man refused, the women was entitled to subject him to public disgrace before the elders (Duet 25:5-10). (Colin Brown, Dictionary of New Testament Theology 2:577-579.)
The practice of levirate marriage promoted Polygyny, for the levir might himself already possess a wife before marrying his deceased brother’s widow. (Interpreter’s Bible Dictionary 3:280.)

 

[Norman]

I do not credit hardly anything from the apologists, by then the apostasy was already set free from it's restraints.
And as regards to your question, yes I am both baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I am a witness for Jehovah.

Norman: Hi Kolibri, your Church created your own bible; so why would you have a problem with the Book of Mormon? The early Christian Father's were there in person; it is your loss to this treasure of information. The Book of Mormon stands alone all by itself, it speaks for itself and is the pillar of my faith. Most people who call Joseph Smith Jr. into question have never read about him. Know one can know if holy writ is true accept by the power of the Holy Ghost, there is no other way.

Moroni 10:2 And I seal up these records, after I have spoken a few words by way of exhortation unto you. 3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

If holy writ was written by holy men as moved upon by the Holy Ghost as Peter stated; then a person has to read holy writ and come to know by that same influence; the Holy Ghost of what is true. Would you agree?

 

[rrosskopf]

Oh, what man made creed are you referring to?

That the Bible is in some way complete.

According to Jesus, God's word is truth. Therefore, it stands to reason that if someone contradicts God's word the bible, then they are not words from God. That seems to me to be a good way to determine if something is from God or not.

I don't believe the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible any more than the Bible contradicts the Bible. I already showed you how "soul" wasn't a contradiction at all. So finish reading the Book of Mormon, then ask God if it is true. When he answers you, come enter the waters of baptism.

Joseph Smith gave up all hope of discovering the truth by an appeal to the Bible. All the preachers interpreted it differently. He turned to God to discover his words.

 

[Norman]

Oh, what man made creed are you referring to?
According to Jesus, God's word is truth. Therefore, it stands to reason that if someone contradicts God's word the bible, then they are not words from God. That seems to me to be a good way to determine if something is from God or not.
.
But you live in America where it is illegal to practice polygamy... so how can it be a cultural thing for you? The laws of America have a foundation in Christian laws which is why polygamy is not legal there.... doesn't that tell you something?

And are you saying that the Mormon women of Utah have more authority then Jesus 12 apostles who wrote against the practice? You know, I find your argument a little too convenient... The women voted in favor of it so it's ok? I'm sure that even if they voted against it the Mormon church would still say it's OK.

Norman: Hi Pegg, There were a number of different Jewish sects at the beginning of the Christian Era with differing views on marriage ranging from Polygny to celibacy to monogamy and divorce. The termination of a marriage through the power of civil or ecclesiastical law. According to the New Testament, God permitted divorce under some conditions because of the hardness of the people’s hearts; however, as Jesus explained, “from the beginning it was not so” (Matt. 19:3–12). The scriptures counsel against divorce generally and advise husbands and wives to love each other in righteousness (1 Cor. 7:10–12; D&C 42:22). (www.lds.org)

Norman: Josephus, famous Jewish historian, while listing the relationships of a number of prominent Jews at his time (1st century AD), explains….”it is the ancient practice among Us to have many wives at the same time.”

Norman: Acutully Jewish polygamy clashed with Roman monogamy at the time of the early church:"When the Christian Church came into being, polygamy was still practiced by the Jews. It is true that we find no references to it in the New Testament; and from this some have inferred that it must have fallen into disuse, and that at the time of our Lord the Jewish people had become monogamous. But the conclusion appears to be unwarranted.
Josephus in two places speaks of polygamy as a recognized institution: and Justin Martyr makes it a matter of reproach to Trypho that the Jewish teachers permitted a man to have several wives. Indeed when in 212 A.D. the lex Antoniana de civitate gave the rights of Roman Citizenship to great numbers of Jews, it was found necessary to tolerate polygamy among them, even though it was against Roman law for a citizen to have more than one wife. In 285 A.D. a constitution of Diocletian and Maximian interdicted polygamy to all subjects of the empire without exception. But with the Jews, at least, the enactment failed of its effect; and in 393 A.D. a special law was issued by Theodosius to compel the Jews to relinquish this national custom. Even so they were not induced to conform. (Joyce, George (1933). Christian Marriage: An Historical and Doctrinal Study. Sheed and Ward. p. 560.)

Norman: When Jesus (Matt 19:3-6; Mk 10:6-9) and Paul (1 Cor 7; Eph 5:21-33) speak of marriage in these passages, it seems to be monogamy. Polygamy was a well known practice in Palestine at the inception of Christianity and certainly early converts would have included Jewish Plygamists, yet the fact is the New Testament offers no condemnation or prohibition of the practice.

Norman: 1 Timothy 3:2…This passage (also v.12 & Titus 1:6) is sometimes cited as a New Testament prohibition of polygamy. In it Paul presents a list of qualifications for the office of bishop, one of which concerns marital status. While Paul’s intent may have been to disqualify polygamists from the bishopric, it could only be interpreted as a partial prohibition applying only to bishops and deacons. There is, however considerable difference of opinion among Bible scholars regarding Paul’s intended meaning in this verse. The following renderings from several bible translations reflect these differences.
Norman:
KJV…1 Timothy 3:2…husband of one wife (also, GNB, NIV, NWT, Geneva, Rheims, Phillips)
RSV…1 Timothy 3:2…married only once (also, ASV, NRSV, JB, Goodspeed, Moffatt)
NEB…1 Timothy 3:2…faithful to his one wife (also, Knox, Weymouth)
CEV…1 Timothy 3:2…be faithful in marriage
CEV…1 Timothy 3:2…(margin) have never been divorced.

Norman: In regards to 1 Timothy 3:2…“If the private members and all the church were limited to one, Paul’s instruction for the bishops and deacons to be the husbands of one wife would have been altogether unnecessary. If there were no such practice prevailing in the Christian church, instead of confining these officers not one wife, he Paul would have required them to receive no person into the church who had more than one wife. The very expression, “The bishop must be the husband of one wife” is a strong indication to me that there were many in the church who were the husbands of more than one wife. Neither Paul nor any of the other apostles has ever represented the plurality of wives to be sinful or evil in the sight of God.

 

[Norman]

When one of Gods servants used the urim and thumin, it was to seek an answer to a difficult issue. But Joseph was using divination to search for riches....
If divination was inspired of God, why would God himself be so against it and make the practice punishable by death?

You can't compare what the prophets of old were doing with what Joseph Smith was doing. He was an occultist and used occult practices to benefit himself.

Norman: Hi Pegg, Let me correct you on the
Urim and Thummim
Hebrew term that means “Lights and Perfections.” An instrument prepared of God to assist man in obtaining revelation from the Lord and in translating languages. See Ex. 28:30; Lev. 8:8; Num. 27:21; Deut. 33:8; 1 Sam. 28:6; Ezra 2:63; Neh. 7:65; JS—H 1:35.
Using a Urim and Thummim is the special prerogative of a seer, and it would seem reasonable that such instruments were used from the time of Adam. However, the earliest mention is in connection with the brother of Jared (Ether 3:21–28). Abraham used a Urim and Thummim (Abr. 3:1–4), as did Aaron and the priests of Israel, and also the prophets among the Nephites (Omni 1:20–21; Mosiah 8:13–19; 21:26–28; 28:11–20; Ether 4:1–7). There is more than one Urim and Thummim, but we are informed that Joseph Smith had the one used by the brother of Jared (Ether 3:22–28; D&C 10:1; 17:1). (See Seer.) A partial description is given in JS—H 1:35. Joseph Smith used it in translating the Book of Mormon and in obtaining other revelations.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/urim-and-thummim?lang=eng&letter=u

Norman: Pegg, you know nothing about the great Prophet and Seer Joseph Smith Jr. Your disparaging and decry comments only show your ignorance of the man. He made a living at one time like everyone else did. Your occult comment only shows your inability to really study and show yourself approved. Are you seeking disciples after yourself on a crusade against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? I have been a member now for thirty years and have heard it all. Go ahead and blow your trumpet and declare victory for yourself which would only be self evident anyway. The Book of Mormon will continue to flood the earth. Aren't you Roman Catholic?

 

[4consideration]

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[4consideration]

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[Kolibri]

I want to formally apologize for derailing this thread. I found it via the "new topics" and did not realize it was a DIR until Katzpur pointed it out.

 

[Pegg]

Norman: Hi BummerBeavis, I am assuming that you are referring to Joseph Smith. You actually proved a point that polygyny does go way back. The
LDS Church did not create it. You really need to read the whole story of when Joseph first received the revelation and how he felt about it at first and what transpired into a slow process of it's practice among our people.

There was "Primogeniture" which is the state of being the firstborn of the children of the same parents an exclusive right of inheritance belonging to the eldest son

Old Testament Rules on Polygyny
Lev 18:7,8: 20:11, Deu 22:30; 27:20..no intercourse with your mother or father’s other wives.
Lev 18:18…do not take your wife’s sister as one of your wives.
Ex 21:10…second wife is to be treated the same as the first.
Due 21:15-17…regarding inheritance, a father is not to show partiality to the son of his favorite wife.
Lev19:20…rule regarding a slave girl who is recognized as a man’s concubine.

Old Testament Polygynynist’s-were godly men
Lamech (Gen 4:19, 23)…2 wives.
Abraham (Gen 16:251-6)…atleast 2 wives and at least 2 concubines.
Jacob (Gen 29,30)…2 wives and 2 concubines.
Essu (Gen 26:34; 28:9; 36:2)…5 wives.
Moses (Ex 2:21 called by God to free the Hebrews from Egypt…Num 12:1…2 wives.
Gideon (Jdg 8:30, 31 …called by God to lead Israel…many wives and 1 concubine.
Jair (Jdg 10:3)…Leader of Israel…had 30 sons.
Izban (Jdg 12:9)…leader of Israel…30 sons and 30 daughters’.
Abdon (Jdg 12:13,14)…leader of Israel…had 40 sons.
Saul ( 2 Sam 12:8)…unnamed and unnumbered wives.
David (1 Sam 18:27; 25:43; 2 Sam 3:2-5; 2:2; 5:13-16; 11:26, 27; 1 Chr 3:1-9)….7 wives named, others unnamed, and concubines. All that David did was right except in the case of Uriah 1 Igs 15:5. Saul’s wives were given to him by Lord (2 Sam 12:8).
Elkanah (1 Sam 1:2)…the prophet Samuel’s father….2 wives.
Solomon (1 Kings 3:1; 11:3)…700 wives and 300 concubines.
Judah (1 Chr 2:3)…2 wives.
Caleb (1 Chr 2:18-50)…2 wives and 2 concubines.
Ashur (1 Chr 4:5)…2 wives.
Shaharaim (1 Chr 8:8)…atleast 2 wives.
Rehoboam (2 Chr 11:21)…18 wives, and 60 concubines.
Abijah (1 Chr 13:31)…King of Judah, 14 wives.
Joash (2 Chr 24:3)…King of Judah, 2 wives chosen for him by the priest Jehoiada.
Hosea (Hos 1:2; 3:1-3)…2 wives commanded by the Lord.

Polygyny in The Bible:

The practice of Polygyny in the Old Testament is well known. It is asserted that in the Bible, while Polygyny was practiced, it was
Never approved, that it was a sin, merely allowed, or perhaps just Overlooked. Or the person has to explain it away, because they fear
Polygyny and do not understand it.

This point of view finds no merit or support from available sources or scholarly research . The common conclusion among Hebrew scholars is that:
In the Mosaic law Polygyny is clearly regarded as a normal and licit practice.
Although among the common people it was probably never very widespread and sometimes even quite rare. Nowhere in the Old Testament is this form of marriage called into question. The one and only admonition against the acquisition of too many wives (Duet 17:17) is not an attack upon the institution of Polygyny: however, it is, if we take account of the context, simply a warning against an abuse-against the King’s taking to many wives, foreign wives specifically, because they would turn his heart toward their foreign gods (1 Kings 11:1-8.)

Adultery could be committed only between persons who were not validly and licitly married to each other; and, of course, Polygyny marriages was no less valid and licit than monogamous marriage. The Mosaic Law gave equal recognition to both types of marriage and usually made no distinction between the two although there were severe penalties for adultery (Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-23), It is Nowhere suggested in the Bible that there were any sanctions against Jewish Polygyny. (Eugene Hillman, Polygamy Reconsidered (N.Y.: Orbis Books, 1975_ 145.)
Solomon, the most married man in the OT, is not condemned for his plural marriages but only for his marriages to foreign women (Nehemiah 13:223-27; 1 Kings 11:1-8).

Monogamy the rule, Polygyny the Exception
Polygyny and monogamy were considered equally valid, with monogamy the more common form of marriage.
“Polygyny was widespread in ancient Israel; (marriage with more than one women) rather than polyandry (marriage with more than one man)…
the general practice of monogamy in the biblical records cannot be denied. It is evident in the OT, and it is regularly presupposed in the NT…Many of the Hebrew laws strongly imply this form of marriage (Exod 20:17; 21:5; Lev. 18:8; 16, 20:20:10; 21:13; Num 5:112; Duet 5:21; 22:22: 24:5, etc.) (George Arthur Buttrick, Interpreter’s Bible Dictionary (Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1962) 3:280, 281.)

Levirate Law Contributes to Polygyny
The levirate marriage (from the Lat. Levir, brother-in-law) refers to the marriage of man with his deceased brother’s widow in the event of his dying childless.
The widow was not to remarry outside the family and the unmarred brother was to perform the duties of a husband to her to raise up children to the deceased, in order to perpetuate his name in Israel. If the man refused, the women was entitled to subject him to public disgrace before the elders (Duet 25:5-10). (Colin Brown, Dictionary of New Testament Theology 2:577-579.)
The practice of levirate marriage promoted Polygyny, for the levir might himself already possess a wife before marrying his deceased brother’s widow. (Interpreter’s Bible Dictionary 3:280.)

Are you sure Lamech was a godly man? The Bible says he was a murderer and none of his offspring survived the flood.

Are you sure Abraham was a polygamist? The bible says he only remarried after the death of Sarah.... and he was over 100 years old by that stage.

Are you sure Moses was a polygamist? The cu****e wife was Zippora and she seems to be the only wife mentioned in the bible.

Are you Jacob chose to be a polygamist? The bible account actually says that he was tricked into marrying Leah when he wanted to marry Rachael.

Are you sure Esau was a Godly man? The bible says it was Jacob who obtained God's blessing even though Esau was heir to it through birth.

I do agree with you that polygamy was practiced.... can I ask if it is the Mormon view that polygamy is God's will for mankind? Are we designed to practice it and did God Institute the practice?

 

[Katzpur]

I want to formally apologize for derailing this thread. I found it via the "new topics" and did not realize it was a DIR until Katzpur pointed it out.

No biggie. You were not the problem. The OP was actually almost asking for a debate, which is as big a problem as your having posted in response. I really don't like it when people use their own DIRs to promote their own religions. To me, that's not what the DIRs were created for.

 

[BummerBeavis]

Are you sure Lamech was a godly man? The Bible says he was a murderer and none of his offspring survived the flood.

Are you sure Abraham was a polygamist? The bible says he only remarried after the death of Sarah.... and he was over 100 years old by that stage.

Are you sure Moses was a polygamist? The cu****e wife was Zippora and she seems to be the only wife mentioned in the bible.

Are you Jacob chose to be a polygamist? The bible account actually says that he was tricked into marrying Leah when he wanted to marry Rachael.

Are you sure Esau was a Godly man? The bible says it was Jacob who obtained God's blessing even though Esau was heir to it through birth.

I do agree with you that polygamy was practiced.... can I ask if it is the Mormon view that polygamy is God's will for mankind? Are we designed to practice it and did God Institute the practice?

I am not so sure that God really cares about this, Yeshua did say what he would do to those who hurt children. Certain women seen to want to have other women in their marriage. the ones who don't do not get themselves in these situations. i do find it disturbing that people show more interest in people doing these things but they never make any issue about people breaking God's 10 commandments. I suspect this is because so few people are worshiping that God

 

[Pegg]

I am interested I'm how the Mormon church get around the direct command found in the letters of the New Testament which say any elder or overseer in the christian congregation must only have one wife.
If all Mormon men are considered to be elders, then how can any of support polygamy?