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Why We Need The Book of Mormon

Norman

Defender of Truth
2 Nephi 29:3...And because my words shall hiss forth-many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible

2 Nephi 29:10...Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written

One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."

When the Church of Constantine endeavored to make the teachings of the New Covenant in sync with fourth century Roman Pagan thought and culture, to ignore the facts with respect to the manner in which the corrupters of the Word recreated the message of the scriptures in order to make it compatible to church doctrine, is to make oneself disingenuous to the very Son of God to whom we proclaim to be faithful to.

The truth and the facts to the matter is very clearly expressed in the words of Prof. Bart D. Ehrman in his book, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, where he warns us that: "...theological disputes, specifically disputes over Christology, prompted Christian scribes to alter the words of scripture in order to make them more serviceable for the polemical task. Scribes modified their manuscripts to make them more patently ‘orthodox’ and less susceptible to ‘abuse’ by the opponents of orthodoxy" -- which orthodoxy was to bring the text of the Bible into conformity with the doctrines and tenets of the Church of the Roman Emperor Constantine.To close our hearts and minds to the facts, and ignore the truth, is from a New Covenant perspective synonymous with relinquishing any claim whatsoever with respect to being a follower of Jesus.
With regard to the condition of the Bible we presently use: The surviving Greek texts of the book of Acts are so radically different from each other, that it has been suggested that perhaps there were multiple versions written. In his book The Text of the New Testament, Dr. Vincent Taylor writes that "The manuscripts of the New Testament preserve traces of two kinds of dogmatic alterations: those which involve the elimination or alteration of what was regarded as doctrinally unacceptable or inconvenient, and those which introduce into the Scriptures proof for a favorite theological tenet or practice".

To put Dr. Taylor's words in perspective: What Dr. Taylor is stating is that, whatever doctrine Jesus taught which the Church of the Roman Empire did not agree with, there is overwhelming evidence that the church corrupters removed what was objectionable from their perspective. In like manner, whatever doctrines the Church regarded as being true, regardless of whether that belief was supported in the scriptures, the Church inserted this belief into the Bible in an attempt to make it authentic. What Dr. Taylor is warning us is there is good reason to conclude that our scriptures have been rewritten by the Church of Constantine. Now the question that is being posed here is whether you believe the theological tenets of Rome, or the disciples of Christ -- because the two are not the same.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
This contradicts:

"Listen! Someone is saying: 'Call out!' Another asks: 'What should I call out?' 'All flesh is green grass. All their loyal love is like the blossom of the field. The green grass dries up, The blossom withers, Because the breath of Jehovah blows upon it. Surely the people are but green grass. The green grass dries up, The blossom withers, But the word of our God endures forever.'" - Isa 40:6-8

I don't see the contradiction. Isaiah could just as easily been referring to the scriptures written by Lehi's posterity, as anything else. Are you suggesting that no inspired books have ever been lost? The Bible itself reveals a long line of lost books. Where can I find the Visions of Iddo the Seer? Or Nathan the Prophet? Perhaps the angels have a copy of every book, but it is a cinch that they cannot be found in our modern Bible.
 
This contradicts:

"Listen! Someone is saying: 'Call out!' Another asks: 'What should I call out?' 'All flesh is green grass. All their loyal love is like the blossom of the field. The green grass dries up, The blossom withers, Because the breath of Jehovah blows upon it. Surely the people are but green grass. The green grass dries up, The blossom withers, But the word of our God endures forever.'" - Isa 40:6-8

"For 'all flesh is' (or "all humans are.") like grass, and its glory is like a blossom of the field; the grass withers, and the flower falls off, but the saying (or "word.") of Jehovah endures forever.' And this 'saying' is the good news that was declared to you." - 1 Pe 1:24,25
-------------------------------------------

Man can not obscure God's word beyond retrieval.
(This is additional proof that God is real and exists).

How the Bible Came to Us: The Hebrew Scriptures, Dead Sea Scrolls, and More | NWT

/quote
The situation could be likened to that of a teacher who asks 100 students to copy a chapter of a book. Even if the original chapter was later lost, a comparison of the 100 copies would still reveal the original text. While each student might make some errors, it is highly unlikely that all the students would make exactly the same ones. Similarly, when scholars compare the thousands of fragments and copies of ancient Bible books available to them, they can detect copyist error and determine the original wording.

How confident can we be that the thoughts contained in the original Bible texts have been accurately transmitted to us? Commenting on the text of the Hebrew Scriptures, scholar William H. Green stated: “It may be safely said that no other work of antiquity has been so accurately transmitted.” Regarding the Christian Greek Scriptures, or so-called New Testament, Bible scholar F. F. Bruce wrote: “The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning.” He also said: “If the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt.”
/endquote

ALL the Holy Scriptures were written by YHWH-YaH as stated in (Exo 32:32 KJV) Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy ( YHWH-YaH's) book which thou( YHWH-YaH ) hast written.

(Exo 32:33 KJV) And YHWH-YaH said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me ( YHWH-YaH ) , him will I ( YaH ) blot out of my ( YaH's) book.

YHWH-YaH wrote His BOOK all in Hebrew to the Hebrews His Firstborn Son (Exo 4:22 KJV) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHWH-YaH, Israel is my ( YaH's) son, even my ( YaH's) firstborn:

(2 Pet 1:21 KJV) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Those Hebrew Holy men of YaH who were of the Israel of Elohim under the inspiration of Elohim a Spirit completed on earth Elohim's/God's Book the O.T. and N.T.

YHWH-YaH gave His Book to the Israel of Elohim the Firstborn Son who then gave it to the Gentiles and as such I thank YaH and the Israel of Elohim for YaH's Book..

It should be understood that the division O.T. and N.T.did not exist in the Hebrew Bible written by Hebrew Holy men of YaH.
It was not until Jerome, who in the early 5th century distinguished the Hebrew Bible as separate as O.T Hebrew and N.T. as Greek but ininatialy the Hebrew Bible from Genesis to Revelation had no such division since division is not of YaH and it is His Book..

Just as a house divided cannot stand and Satan divided cannot stand but hath an end.

(Mark 3:25 KJV) And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

(Mark 3:26 KJV) And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

(Mark 3:27 KJV) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

So it is with all the so called divided O.T. and N.T. books called the Bible they will have an end but the Hebrew Bible undivided from Genesis to Revelation will stand eternal as YaH's BOOK.

A Hebrew translation of Matthew to Revelation was written by the apostles including the apostle Paul a Hebrew of the Hebrews. A Hebrew translation to English of Matthew through to Revelation is available to read .and can be purchased at any religious book store or ordered.
 
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rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
***Staff Edit***
That's not true. Joseph Smith never participated in witchcraft. Divination literally means to be inspired by God. He used divination the same way the prophets and apostles of old used divination. The apostles cast lots to see who would fill Judas' place in the church leadership. Is not this "divination"? Why are people so anxious to malign a good man?
 
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Norman

Defender of Truth
This contradicts:

"Listen! Someone is saying: 'Call out!' Another asks: 'What should I call out?' 'All flesh is green grass. All their loyal love is like the blossom of the field. The green grass dries up, The blossom withers, Because the breath of Jehovah blows upon it. Surely the people are but green grass. The green grass dries up, The blossom withers, But the word of our God endures forever.'" - Isa 40:6-8

"For 'all flesh is' (or "all humans are.") like grass, and its glory is like a blossom of the field; the grass withers, and the flower falls off, but the saying (or "word.") of Jehovah endures forever.' And this 'saying' is the good news that was declared to you." - 1 Pe 1:24,25
-------------------------------------------
Norman: What contradictions? Why do you keep begging the question? Yes, the 1 Peter 1:24-25 was influenced by the passage in Isaiah 40:6-8 and it mentions some sentences as word for word. Peter here paraphrases most of it. . The New Testament quoted the Old Testament, directly and indirectly 266 times. This would be normal since all the Apostles and Jesus had was the Old Testament manuscripts. However, were they quoting from older passages or just what we have in our Protestant Bibles? “The word of our God endures forever” “Of Jehovah endures forever” If you believe Isaiah and Peter than why did your church create your own bible?

Man can not obscure God's word beyond retrieval.
Norman: The problem is, yes man has obscured the word of God. This is what you seem to ignore.

(This is additional proof that God is real and exists).

Norman: I never said that God isn’t real or that He didn’t exist.

How the Bible Came to Us: The Hebrew Scriptures, Dead Sea Scrolls, and More | NWT

/quote
The situation could be likened to that of a teacher who asks 100 students to copy a chapter of a book. Even if the original chapter was later lost, a comparison of the 100 copies would still reveal the original text. While each student might make some errors, it is highly unlikely that all the students would make exactly the same ones. Similarly, when scholars compare the thousands of fragments and copies of ancient Bible books available to them, they can detect copyist error and determine the original wording.

Norman: Yes, you are just supporting what I have been saying, we do not have the original autographs of the Old or New Testament manuscripts. So, we have copies of copies of copies. Yes, some scholars have been able to do detect the errors. All this just shows that the manuscripts were messed with time and time again. This is the omphalos of my point.

How confident can we be that the thoughts contained in the original Bible texts have been accurately transmitted to us? Commenting on the text of the Hebrew Scriptures, scholar William H. Green stated: “It may be safely said that no other work of antiquity has been so accurately transmitted.” Regarding the Christian Greek Scriptures, or so-called New Testament, Bible scholar F. F. Bruce wrote: “The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning.” He also said: “If the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt.”
/endquote

Norman: I do not agree with William H. Green. I see that we both like to quote Frederick Fyvie Bruce who taught Greek for years. He was not referring to scholars or the early church Fathers, He was referring to what is stated below:
Some classical authors were Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, Ralph Waldo Emerson, The philosopher George Berkeley, René Descartes was a French philosopher, He has been dubbed the father of modern philosophy, and much subsequent Western philosophy

http://twain.classicauthors.net/index.html

Norman: Let’s look at forced interpolation into scripture by Frederick Fyvie Bruce:
1 John 5:"7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
Only the words above in bold represent the original Greek text of 1John. The italicized words were added to Erasmus' Greek text of 1 John in his 1522 edition. The added wording had not been in Erasmus' original 1514 edition, so a church official manipulated Erasmus to add the wording to his Greek text. Conservative biblical scholar F.F. Bruce (History of the English Bible, Third Edition, New York: Oxford University Press, 1978, pages 141-142)

Norman: Let’s turn back to “Taken Away”
"He shall be called a Nazarene", quoted by Matthew. This quote is nowhere in the Old Testament; so what happened to the Old Testament manuscript that contained it?

Norman: Currently in our Protestant KJV Bible…..Ezra 10:19…And they gave their hands that they would put away their wives; and being guilty, they offered a ram of the flock for their trespass…Justin Martyr accusing Trypho the Jew, quoted it this way…. Ezra 10:19:… This Passover is our Savior and our Refuge; and if ye will be persuaded of it, and let it enter into your hearts, that we are to humble ourselves to him in a sign, and afterwards shall believe in him, This place shall not be destroyed for ever, saith the Lord of Hosts: but if ye will not believe in him, Nor hearken to his preaching, ye shall be a laughing-stock to the gentiles’ (Dial.cum Tryphone, sec.72). “This passage Justin says, the Jews, through their enmity to Christ, blotted out of the book of Ezra. He charges them with canceling several other places through the same spirit of enmity and opposition. (Adam Clark, The Holy Bible…with a commentary and Critical Notes, 2:752.)

Norman: How Far do you want to take this? It can go on and on with this topic.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
The mere fact that the Jews neglected to preserve these books as canonical demonstrates that they are not lost inspired writings as per Romans 3:1,2
That is circular reasoning. You are basically saying that you are right, because otherwise you would be wrong. The Jews were in a constant state of apostasy, and prophets fell in and out of favor. We live in an imperfect world, a world where the majority doesn't always know the truth. The "word of God" could simply be interpreted as "the word of God", and not any particular book. Our New Testament, as it currently stands, is the third of fourth collection of such books. I see no reason to declare the current one the "word of God" while dismissing all others. The Nag Hammadi Library contains our oldest Christian texts, leather bound books in a poor state of preservation, books that were held as sacred scripture by the Gnostics, whose sole crime was to believe a different tradition than the Catholics. I see no reason to trust the Catholic worldview over that of the Gnostics. At least the Gnostics weren't worshipping Mary.
As for Romans 3:1,2: Why not show the next verses as well?
"True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful? Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true."
So the revelation of God was entrusted to the Jews, and admittedly, some of them were unfaithful. There isn't one word about magical books that defy human intervention.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
We have preserved what we need to make 2 Tim 3:16,17 true
In legal terms, this is known as twisting. You want to steady the ark, but you are doing more harm than good. Let's take a closer look at the scripture in question:
"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right."
First of all, the word used for "scripture" is GRAPHE, which is Greek for writing. "is" isn't in the Greek at all. Some translator inserted it trying to made sense of the whole thing. It should really read "All writing, inspired by God, is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives..." If only Greek had commas. No specific book was implied. No list of books were given in a list as inspired. It doesn't claim the Bible is infallible; the author had never even seen a bible.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
1-timothy-3-2.jpg

This doesn't say that polygamy is wrong. There is no commandment towards the general membership of the church, so it wasn't a sin. It actually infers that there were members of Christ's church who were polygamists. No reason is given for the instruction. No revelation from God is referenced. There is no reason at all to believe that this is anything but an administrative decision. Saint Augustine, revered by the Catholic church, defended polygamy as being a matter of culture.:

Again, Jacob the son of Isaac is charged with having committed a great crime because he had four wives. But here there is no ground for a criminal accusation: for a plurality of wives was no crime when it was the custom; and it is a crime now, because it is no longer the custom. There are sins against nature, and sins against custom, and sins against the laws. In which, then, of these senses did Jacob sin in having a plurality of wives? As regards nature, he used the women not for sensual gratification, but for the procreation of children. For custom, this was the common practice at that time in those countries. And for the laws, no prohibition existed. The only reason of its being a crime now to do this, is because custom and the [secular] laws forbid it.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
***staff edit***
It may be true that Joseph, while still a boy, and suffering great poverty, tried to use his gift for the support of his family, but it is also true that the angel Moroni warned him against such desires, in regards to the Book of Mormon.

But what was my surprise when again I beheld the same messenger at my bedside, and heard him rehearse or repeat over again to me the same things as before; and added a caution to me, telling me that Satan would try to tempt me (in consequence of the indigent circumstances of my father’s family), to get the plates for the purpose of getting rich. This he forbade me, saying that I must have no other object in view in getting the plates but to glorify God, and must not be influenced by any other motive than that of building his kingdom; otherwise I could not get them. - Joseph Smith History

When Joseph first attempted to get the Book of Mormon, he was tempted to sell the gold, and immediately he was admonished by the Lord. He repented of his sin, and did eventually obtain the book.

If divination was inspired of God, why would God himself be so against it and make the practice punishable by death?
Clearly the apostles didn't believe that the commandment against divination applied to seers or to the practice of casting lots. This is a place where modern revelation might clear things up. Never-the-less, I find Isaiah's explanation to be instructive:

Someone may say to you, "Let's ask the mediums and those who consult the spirits of the dead. With their whisperings and mutterings, they will tell us what to do." But shouldn't people ask God for guidance? Should the living seek guidance from the dead? Isaiah 8:19

I suggest that perhaps good divination involves asking God, whereas bad divination involves asking the spirits of the dead or pagan gods.
 
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Sorry. in my haste I was not able to edit and I may have neglected to clarify this point anyway
.
In 2Ch 9:29; 12:15; 13:22 Id'do writings are referred to as an exposition, commentary or a midrash.

The account merely says that these were consulted in information regarding the affairs of Kings Solomon, Rehoboam, and Abijah, and that those that lived at the time of Ezra's writing of the Chronicles could see that what was written down conformed to what was in the historical records available.

The mere fact that the Jews neglected to preserve these books as canonical demonstrates that they are not lost inspired writings as per Romans 3:1,2

We can also infer a point from John 21:25.

"There are also, in fact, many other things that Jesus did, which if ever they were written in full detail, I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written."

Why are these things not written down? Surely they would be beneficial. But the fact is writing it all down would have made the word of God excessively unwieldy.
We have preserved what we need to make 2 Tim 3:16,17 true and to allow for Daniel 12:4 to come true in an expanded way towards all scripture.

(John 14:25 KJV) These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
(John 14:26 KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

We have all Jesus said but not all that Jesus did; because what Jesus spoke-said as his words were scripture. (Rom 10:17 KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Seeing a miracle done can cause someone to believe but then it is not a lasting faith that cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

(Luke 8:10 KJV) And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

(Luke 8:11 KJV) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

The seed is not the deed of a miracle.

(Luke 8:12 KJV) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

(Luke 8:13 KJV) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

(Luke 8:14 KJV) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

(Luke 8:15 KJV) But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

(Luke 8:18 KJV) Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

Take heed therefore how ye hear and not how you see.

(
John 20:29 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed..

Jesus was telling Thomas because he saw Jesus resurrected by YHWH-YaH he believed the scripture (John 2:22 KJV) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

(Mat 27:52 KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(Mat 27:53 KJV) And came out of the graves after his (Jesus') resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Many people in the holy city, Jerusalem, saw the miracle of Jesus resurrected along with those saints of Matt 27:52 but they still did not believe the scriptures as did Thomas and others.

Jesus clearly teaches Thomas that seeing is not believing "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.".. .

Lasting believing faith does not cometh by seeing all that Jesus did but by hearing and hearing by seed the word of God .

willyah
 
This doesn't say that polygamy is wrong. There is no commandment towards the general membership of the church, so it wasn't a sin. It actually infers that there were members of Christ's church who were polygamists. No reason is given for the instruction. No revelation from God is referenced. There is no reason at all to believe that this is anything but an administrative decision. Saint Augustine, revered by the Catholic church, defended polygamy as being a matter of culture.:

Again, Jacob the son of Isaac is charged with having committed a great crime because he had four wives. But here there is no ground for a criminal accusation: for a plurality of wives was no crime when it was the custom; and it is a crime now, because it is no longer the custom. There are sins against nature, and sins against custom, and sins against the laws. In which, then, of these senses did Jacob sin in having a plurality of wives? As regards nature, he used the women not for sensual gratification, but for the procreation of children. For custom, this was the common practice at that time in those countries. And for the laws, no prohibition existed. The only reason of its being a crime now to do this, is because custom and the [secular] laws forbid it.
How many wives does Jesus Christ the Lamb of God have in scripture? Is it not ONE.

(Rev 21:9 KJV) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.


willyah
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
How many wives does Jesus Christ the Lamb of God have in scripture? Is it not ONE.
That is debatable. Wives are seldom mentioned in the scriptures, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. Presumably all the apostles had wives, yet we don't know anything about them. You assume that Jesus didn't have a wife, but that opinion is unsupported by fact. Jesus is called "Rabbi", a title traditionally reserved for married men. No where is he accused of disobeying the commandment to get married.

Even if Jesus only had one wife, it doesn't prove that polygamy is a sin. Jesus talked openly about polygamy without once condemning it.
 
That is debatable. Wives are seldom mentioned in the scriptures, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. Presumably all the apostles had wives, yet we don't know anything about them. You assume that Jesus didn't have a wife, but that opinion is unsupported by fact. Jesus is called "Rabbi", a title traditionally reserved for married men. No where is he accused of disobeying the commandment to get married.

Even if Jesus only had one wife, it doesn't prove that polygamy is a sin. Jesus talked openly about polygamy without once condemning it.
Is not Jesus our example that we use in the one body of Christ ?

(Rom 12:5 KJV) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

(Eph 2:15 KJV) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

(Eph 2:16 KJV) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The Lamb of God has one body , one wife and is our example of his love for the church that he gave himself for

(Eph 5:25 KJV) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

willyah
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
***staff edit***
That is one interpretation. Another interpretation is that a man can be "one flesh" with more than one wife. Don't get me wrong. The LDS church doesn't believe in polygamy, unless it is commanded of God. There's the rub. Sometimes it has been commanded of God. Moses was the lawgiver. Not only is there no law against polygamy, Moses himself had two wives. When Miriam complained (not because he married again, but because she wasn't an Israelite!), God told her that Moses didn't do anything without first conferring with God, and to sharpen the point, he gave her leprosy. Was Moses a righteous man? Was he a true prophet of God? Was God accepting of his marriages? Yes, in every respect.
 
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rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
By the way... Utah is not the state with the most online porn - it is like 48 out of 50. The survey from a few years back was faulty, if not completely false. No sources were ever given. A recent survey completely reversed the allegation, finding Utah to have among the least porn of any state.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
It's a good question to ask because only when you see polygamy from the perspective of a woman in a polygamous marriage can you understand why it is wrong.
I've read many statements from women in polygamous marriages. Several of Joseph Smith's and Brigham Young's wives were outspoken supporters of polygamy. That is who we are talking about after all, isn't it? The women of Utah voted overwhelmingly in support of polygamy, when given the right to vote. I think it is just a cultural thing. You are use to a man having one wife, and other cultures are use to a man having more than one wife.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
The way in which the book of more Mormon was given and the person it was given to, and the things contained in it seem very dubious. I really don't believe that it was revelation from Jehovah God.... it does not even follow the same theme as the bible. It holds out a different hope and God's purpose is different in the book of Mormon compared to the bible. It just does not add up.
To each his own. Personally, I kind of like the way it was given to a semi-literate kid and not some pope or other religious icon. One shouldn't pour new wine into old bottles. And for all the bad things that were rumored about Joseph Smith, the truth is that his family loved him and trusted him and believed him, as did his closest friends, and his wife. They didn't think he was wicked or lying. They believed him because honesty was deeply ingrained in his nature. He cared about people. In fact, some thought that he cared too much for others. He was always giving away his possessions to those whose need was greater.
As for it being a revelation; we don't look at it like that. It was a book, like any other. It was just translated by revelation. I'll admit it doesn't read like the Old Testament. It reads very much like the New Testament. But then Mormon, was a Christian who lived around 400 AD. He included the book of Nephi, which tells the story of the prophet Lehi. Lehi lived in 600 BC. Lehi had a vision of the Son of God, who would be born in 600 years. He sees him born of a virgin, and many other things. So, yeah, it reads like the New Testament. Mormon didn't include the Torah or the psalms. He actually knew that we would have some of these books already.
I'm not sure what you mean by "same theme as the Bible". God talks to man through prophets. God teaches righteousness, and commands all to repent. A savior will be born to a virgin. It sure sounds like the same theme.
What different hope does it hold out? I like this excerpt from the book of Enos:

2 And I will tell you of the wrestle which I had before God, before I received a remission of my sins.
3 Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart.
4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.
5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.
6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.
7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?
8 And he said unto me: Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. And many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh; wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole.


To me, it sounds like the same hope that the Bible teaches.

What is God's purpose?

In the Book of Mormon:
Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy. - 2 Nephi 2:25
And now I say unto you that the time shall come that the salvation of the Lord shall be declared to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. - Mosiah 15:28

In the Bible:
Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit. - Psalm 51:12
With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. - Isaiah 12:3
 

Norman

Defender of Truth
Notice the phrase 'What was spoken through the prophets'? This phrase has always been used by the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures only to the same collection of Hebrew Scriptures we use today. However, you are correct Nazareth is not mentioned in Hebrew Scripture. And yet, Nazarene is probably from the Hebrew word ne'tser and ne'tser is indeed found in the Prophets. We know the word in English as "Sprout."

Having something added is not proof if it can be proven to be added. All modern translations need to do is remove it when it is caught. Actually finding the addition is indicative of the opposite. Jehovah has made sure that the original message has been preserved.

Norman: Hi Kolibri, So, you obviously do not believe the early Christians who were taught by the apostles? Justin Martyr that I posted who was the first apologists proved to the Jews that they removed scripture in the manuscript of the Prophet Ezra and from the manuscript of the Prophet Jeremiah about Jehovah. Justin quoted the passage that was removed from Ezra, evidently He was quoting from a manuscript that was not tampered with about that passage. I have quoted numerous scholars and early Christian Father's how far do want to keep begging the question? I have a question, are you a member of the church known as "The Jehovah Witnesses"? Or are just stating that you are a ''Witness for Jehovah"?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
All I want to know is why on earth has this thread been allowed to remain in the LDS DIR all this time? This has clearly turned into a debate, not a question and answer thread about Mormonism.
 
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