Why people should go vegan

[Dan From Smithville]

But as an ethical comparison this doesn't follow. Humans have options and the psychological flexibility to follow them. Other animals do not, so are not moral agents.

I am trying to remember what I was going for there. I had to go and look back.

This sprang from Eddi's mention of animals having consciousness and the capacity to feel pain and suffering. This remains correct whether they have a moral capacity or not and goes to the claim that suffering is suffering whether it be in humans or animals. I do not have any reason that I can come up with to disagree with that claim. Within that lies my concern for some of the practices of modern, commercial animal agriculture.

It was not intended as an ethical comparison. If it were, I would readily agree with you.

 

[Valjean]

Impossible. You need to eat meat for proper brain health.

Considering how long I've been vegan, I must be a blithering idiot by now.

Common fast reproducing fish like carp, sunfish, bass,
etc etc, take all you want, they are kind of like a farm crop.

I wonder what the carp and sunfish would think of your evaluation.

I have canine teeth

the fatted cow must die

ROFL! You call those canines? These are canines:


Oh, wait... That deer's a a vegan.

 

[Valjean]

...grill the flesh

EAT it

with canine teeth

More like you bit off a piece with your incisors and chewed it with your molars.
Human canines are pretty useless. Too pointy to either cut or mash. Too short to latch on to anything wiggly.

 

[Valjean]

which bears to mind....
if the animal does not grasp the situation....
does it matter?

If I murder you in your sleep, does it matter?

 

[Stevicus]

What if one only eats animals which have died of old age? Or perhaps killed by accident, such as road kill?

 

[Valjean]

There are various arguments for veganism. However the “moral” argument is one of the weaker arguments. Although it seems plausible at first glance, it does not withstand close scrutiny.

It is quite possible to obtain meat for consumption without inflicting suffering on animals. It is also possible to grow vegetarian food sources in such a way that causes massive harm and suffering to animals. There is nothing about eating meat, per se, that causes more suffering than veganism.

But there is usually more to the argument than just the avoidance of pain. Most would object to the raising of humans for food even if they had comfortable lives and were slaughtered painlessly.
There are right-to-life issues, as well as theft-of-life.

Animals in the wild live short, brutish lives in constant danger. Animals raised by humans, when done right, live well cared for lives and can be harvest in painless ways. IOW, human use of animals can be quite beneficial to the animals. Please explain why eating an animal is necessarily unkind to it.

Would you consider being raised humanely but valued only as meat a kindness?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Considering how long I've been vegan, I must be a blithering idiot by now.

No. But I'm sure you're taking supplements that come from animal products to ensure you're not deficient.

 

[Valjean]

Aren't animals the very same as us only we have more capabilities? You bet! This can be seen if one really observes animals closely. Animals are children of God as well.

I wasn't aware we had more capabilities. We do have certain cognitive and linguistic superiorities, but other animals have superior sensory, mechanical or cognitive abilities in areas we lack.

Cruelty exists with food animals. Seems mankind cares very little about anything but money. Would it hurt to allow food animals quality of life until it's time for them to leave this world? Of course not. I know if I were in their shoes, I would want that quality.

Me, I'd want to live my own life, with liberty, meaning, challenges, choices and a chance to pursue happiness. I'd question the propriety of relegating a sentient being to a truncated life the sole purpose of which is to be eaten as soon as marketable size is reached.

As I see it. Helping others see speaks to who you are and the many others out there helping as well. Let's all keep pointing them in the right direction.

What speaks most loudly of who you are is the extent of your compassion. Is it reserved only for your own family? for your tribe? your country? your species? or all creatures that might appreciate it?

 

[Valjean]

Anti-social behaviors go against our nature as social animals, and often times are indicative of emotional disturbances.

Alas, evil is banal. Our natural sociability extends only to members of our own tribe. Ordinary people are easily persuaded to commit the most heinous acts of barbarism and genocide.
"Civilized behavior" is a very thin veneer.

 

[Valjean]

Vegans and vegetarians would reach more people if they suggested that people try to eat less meat, instead of claiming a moral high ground. The only thing that is going to do is push people away.

I think this holier-than-thou attitude is greatly exaggerated. Very few even advertise their vegetarianism, much less try to "reach" anyone.

No. But I'm sure you're taking supplements that come from animal products to ensure you're not deficient.

Hey! Who are you calling deficient?

Actually I'm pretty neurotic about the ingredients in my food, medications and vitamins.

 

[Valjean]

What if one only eats animals which have died of old age? Or perhaps killed by accident, such as road kill?

That would certainly obviate the cruelty and maltreatment arguments.

 

[Thief]

"Civilized behavior" is a very thin veneer.

as in?.....eat or be eaten

so what if animals have keen senses
so what if their canines are bigger than mine
so what if they could kiss my *** in a fair? fight

I like meat
my canines might be puny.....but

I like meat

oh.....as for civilized.....
I cut the meat with knife in the right hand
fork in the left

 

[Nous]

We are not natural vegetarians. Our species would not have survived the Pleistocene had we been exclusively veggie. There are also essential nutrients that are very difficult to obtain on a vegan diet.

I just need the evidence by which to conclude that "a diet that includes some meat is healthier than a vegan diet." Presumably that evidence will not require you to make assertions about something being "natural" or speculate about something that would have happened during the Pleistocene era.

 

[Nous]

I just did post evidence that meat eaters are living longer.

So you don't know of any evidence by which to conclude that a diet that includes meat is healthier for humans than a vegan diet? It's OK to just say so.

 

[Valjean]

I just need the evidence by which to conclude that "a diet that includes some meat is healthier than a vegan diet." Presumably that evidence will not require you to make assertions about something being "natural" or speculate about something that would have happened during the Pleistocene era.

Oh no -- I'm not getting into this healthfulness debate. Asserting that people aren't natural veggies is as far as I'm prepared to go right now.

 

[Nakosis]

You're a perfect anarchist, then?

I'm not that far-left. Actually I'm more to the right. I'm more of a capitalist and don't have a problem with a majority setting a minimum of acceptable behavior. Therefore I see me personally deciding for everyone else is unnecessary.

 

[Nous]

Oh no -- I'm not getting into this healthfulness debate. Asserting that people aren't natural veggies is as far as I'm prepared to go right now.

You are correct that humans are not vegetables.

 

[Bird123]

I wasn't aware we had more capabilities. We do have certain cognitive and linguistic superiorities, but other animals have superior sensory, mechanical or cognitive abilities in areas we lack.

Me, I'd want to live my own life, with liberty, meaning, challenges, choices and a chance to pursue happiness. I'd question the propriety of relegating a sentient being to a truncated life the sole purpose of which is to be eaten as soon as marketable size is reached.

What speaks most loudly of who you are is the extent of your compassion. Is it reserved only for your own family? for your tribe? your country? your species? or all creatures that might appreciate it?

In the big scheme of things, Brains win. That is why mankind has more capabilities than animals. Intellectual capabilities will always lead. Of course, having hands is also a great advantage. It's hard to make anything without hands.