Why no God?

[blü 2]

I'm surprised you do not embrace your darker non-objective side. In my opinion all your judgments are subjective. But if you want to stick to the delusion of objectivity I will not rile you.

The important thing about subjectivity is to be aware of it and to balance it with times when objectivity is appropriate. Reasoned enquiry, including scientific method, seeks to maximize objectivity, and is the most successful means to that end we presently know. But while knowing what's true in reality is always a good place to stand, not all of life is about enquiry. It also matters to be a good friend, neighbor and citizen, a good child, spouse, parent and family member.

Yes, my life matters. Each of us is an indispensable part of God realizing His omnipotence. From your perspective I probably sound delusional.

I think we both know such ideas won't withstand much interrogation. From my point of view, a question I didn't anticipate and can't answer is always the best kind of question, because it makes me think, and adjust. That doesn't appeal to you, I take it.

Are you nihilist or just pretending not to be one?

I'm not a nihilist. It's simply true that life has no objective meaning. But it has subjective meaning, in finding a place in society (we're a gregarious species), in love and family, in being useful, in achievement, and so on. How we got this way is explained by evolution and history, should you ever be interested.

Do you believe in divine meaning

In my experience, 'divine meaning' is all connotation and no denotation. Believers seem no more able to articulate what exactly is 'divinely meant' than I can.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It's simply true that life has no objective meaning.

Agreed. Even if one believes in God, let's be real: the bible has our "purpose" being labeling some critters and basic land management, anything a monkey can do with proper education. We're not God's gift to Earth by any stretch of the imagination. A real God doesn't give us purpose, because God could simply do it and forget it, like when adoptees have all these daydreams about meeting their parents and the parents are like "LOL, who?". We have always had to create our own meaning or pay some thinker or spiritualist to do it for us.

 

[Trailblazer]

I know just as well as any messenger. I know just as well as anyone who thinks a messenger knows.

With all due respect, how can you know that, unless you know what the Messenger knows?

You equally have no idea what a messenger experienced. What you claim about God revealed to a messenger is no different than what I know directly about God.

I can only know what the Messenger wrote that He experienced. Likewise, I can only know what you say you have experienced. I do not believe that anyone knows anything directly about God, not even the Messengers. God is too great to know directly. What they receive they get through the Holy Spirit which comes to them in various ways; a Dove descended upon Jesus, the Angel Gabriel came to Muhammad, a Maiden appeared before Baha’u’llah.

This has nothing to do with taking away. This has to do with taking responsibility for your own way of thinking.

I have no problem with that. We are all responsible for our own way of thinking.

You have no idea who God has chosen. Nobody speaks for God.

I do know… I know how I know but I cannot explain to you exactly why I know…

There's saying in Eastern religions, "If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him." If you think it is not possible to know God directly then you do not know God.

I would put it the opposite way; if you think it is possible to know God directly then you do not know God. We all have our beliefs.

Nobody knows God's will. Nobody knows the mind of God. Nobody knows who God bestows authority on. So anyone claiming to speak for God is delusional. No one speaks for God.

You have a right to your opinion, but unless you can prove it, it is just a personal opinion. What I have is a belief since I cannot prove it unequivocally. I believe God bestows authority on certain individuals I call Messengers. There is a lot of evidence that supports my belief. There are scriptures, but there is also history and other evidence. Nevertheless, nobody can prove God sent the Holy Spirit to anyone, which is why it is a belief and not a fact.

Everyone has ideas about God. Many people have different ways of thinking about God. But you claim certain people have a higher authority on what God is saying. I disagree with the notion that anyone knows the mind of God. To know the mind of God means you would have to BE God. I don't see any horns on you. I don't see any angels flying around you.

I never said anyone knows the mind of God. Knowing the will of God for each age in history is simply knowing what God wants for humanity. That is not the same thing as knowing the Mind of God. Nobody knows that but God.

“Wert thou to ponder in thine heart, from now until the end that hath no end, and with all the concentrated intelligence and understanding which the greatest minds have attained in the past or will attain in the future, this divinely ordained and subtle Reality, this sign of the revelation of the All-Abiding, All-Glorious God, thou wilt fail to comprehend its mystery or to appraise its virtue. Having recognized thy powerlessness to attain to an adequate understanding of that Reality which abideth within thee, thou wilt readily admit the futility of such efforts as may be attempted by thee, or by any of the created things, to fathom the mystery of the Living God, the Day Star of unfading glory, the Ancient of everlasting days. This confession of helplessness which mature contemplation must eventually impel every mind to make is in itself the acme of human understanding, and marketh the culmination of man’s development.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 165-166

I thought you said you were "logical" and then you throw in the "mystical" word. The idea of the "unconscious mind" is completely ambiguous.

Unlike you, because I believe absolute authority about God comes from within, I choose my own statements of faith. I do not let other people choose for me. I may choose the exact same ones as your Baha friend, but the point is, I am the one who actively choosing.

I am curious to know absolute authority about God can come from within you… How does the knowledge of God get there? Where does it come from? Like I said, I am logical.

We all have to actively choose our beliefs because we have free will. I chose to believe in Baha’u’llah and get knowledge from Him, what I can know about God, which is very little. I said faith is a mystical thing because it is very personal, experiential, and nothing that can be conditioned by anyone else except oneself. Why do I have faith in Baha’u’llah? I can explain why I “believe” in Him, but I cannot explain why I have faith.

I have thought about God much longer than you have. The problem with people like you who do not think absolute authority comes from within is you are always trying to sell something. Either you are trying to sell something or you want to enlist new members into your cult of thinking.

Again, it is a simple choice of faith. Is authority about God "out there" in a book. Or does it come from within based on our own critical thinking. You choose it's "out there" which is fine if you are a fan of religion and you just want to sit in the stands and watch. But if you want to become a real player on the field then you have to first get on the field.

How do you know how long I have thought about God? Before God was real to me I thought about God but now that God is real that is ALL I ever think about.

Absolute authority about God cannot come from within because that would mean God put it there somehow. I do not believe God is that personal. Besides, I am a realist. If God manifested Himself through a Messenger as I believe He did, that is the best way to get information about God, the most direct way.

I do not have a problem with people who have faith in God without a Messenger or a religion. You cannot say that religious people do not have a “genuine” experience of God; that they just sit in stands and watch. Who is connected to God and not is a mystical thing; it is not a religious thing. How did you get on the field and become a player?

Scripture is someone else's ideas about God. Scripture is not evidence for the existence of God. Nobody denies the existence of "apples" because I can hold one in my hand. Is your faith so weak that you have to pretend or have the delusion that you actually have evidence? People have faith precisely because there is not a single shred of evidence for the existence of God.

If there is not a single shred of evidence for the existence of God, why do you believe God exists? I think that is a fair question.

The Bible scripture may well be someone else’s ideas about God, but the Writings of Baha’u’llah is a Revelation from God through the Holy Spirit which was written in His Own Pen as it was received. This is the most direct way to get information about God and the only way to get accurate information about God, from revelation. Baha’u’llah’s Writings and His Life are evidence for the existence of God to me. That is why I believe God exists and have faith in God.

The difference between you and I is I know what makes my faith. Listening to teachers is not the same thing as teaching yourself. If you really want to learn something the only way is to write about it yourself. You need to "author" your own thoughts before you become an "authority" on a subject. Just listening to other peoples idea's about God will get you only so far. I'm sure the Baha or whoever's basket you are putting your eggs in is a fine teacher. The thing is it's NOT your basket. You did not make the basket. God is waiting.

How can I write about something in order to learn it? Wouldn’t I first have to know it in order to write about it? So the hundred-dollar question is how you know about God, unless it came from God Himself?

So, how do you think anyone can know who really knows God, whatever that means? I mean how could you know if I know or not, and how could I know if you know or not?

Okay, so now you explain what makes your faith. How did you make the basket? I know where mine was made.