• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why no God?

I have heard so many times from atheists, agnostics, etc.. that religion is a natural part of human evolution and we will evolve out of thinking there is a God or dogma.
Why?
There is no way to prove that statement.

With ancient tribes why would the name God, or any name for a Creator be mentioned?
I've heard people say it'd be natural to say someone made it, but why would they just think that?
Is it on a whim?
"Oh, I am here.. someone made here."
not a natural thought.

Native Americans that I have spoken with have some of the most beautiful spiritual knowledge and they even have mentioned what they simply call, "The Creator."

How could God just have been thought up if He wasn't real?
If we are beings that recycle the knowledge that is presented to us how can such an original idea just come out of no where??
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
With ancient tribes why would the name God, or any name for a Creator be mentioned?
Because it's usually much easier to grasp at an easy answer rather than try to figure things out. And, after all, ancient tribes talked about many things that have been proven false. We've learned much since then.
How could God just have been thought up if He wasn't real?
Probably the same way as body humors and the four elements the body is allegedly composed of; titans and giants; monsters of the ocean depths; bigfoot and green little space aliens; demonic possession and enchantments of sorcery; alchemy and astrology.
 
Which part of it?


But God isn't a name. It's a job description.


Every fictional character in all of human literary history has been made up and not real at the same time.

Sure, amusement can be thought up.. totally different mind sets!
You are talking about history that has been recorded since then..
I am talking before then.
How many books have your read from the year 0 and beyond?
 
Because it's usually much easier to grasp at an easy answer rather than try to figure things out. And, after all, ancient tribes talked about many things that have been proven false. We've learned much since then.

Probably the same way as body humors and the four elements the body is allegedly composed of; titans and giants; monsters of the ocean depths; bigfoot and green little space aliens; demonic possession and enchantments of sorcery; alchemy and astrology.

Why is it easier to grasp?
For me it was much harder to believe in a God until my personal experience gave my perception undeniable evidence.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Why is it easier to grasp?
It offers comfort, answers, and security. It can be very difficult for people to accept uncertainty, and to not have any answers. It makes people uncomfortable, and uneasy.
For me it was much harder to believe in a God until my personal experience gave my perception undeniable evidence.
You personal experience isn't evidence for all. Many people have such experiences, and put their own culturally-appropriate/suitable labels on it.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
How many books have your read from the year 0 and beyond?
Year Zero? In what calendar? You realize we can read texts from the "BCE", right? Books didn't just magically appear at "year zero of the Christian calendar (or one of them, anyway)".

For me it was much harder to believe in a God until my personal experience gave my perception undeniable evidence.
I believe in God based on my own personal experiences too. However, I think you should probably be content with that, because if you try to argue that "reality" says your relationship is real, and then quote biased sources that have nothing at all to do with you, then people are going to be quick to call you out on it.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I have heard so many times from atheists, agnostics, etc.. that religion is a natural part of human evolution and we will evolve out of thinking there is a God or dogma.
Why?
There is no way to prove that statement.

With ancient tribes why would the name God, or any name for a Creator be mentioned?
I've heard people say it'd be natural to say someone made it, but why would they just think that?
Is it on a whim?
"Oh, I am here.. someone made here."
not a natural thought.

Native Americans that I have spoken with have some of the most beautiful spiritual knowledge and they even have mentioned what they simply call, "The Creator."

How could God just have been thought up if He wasn't real?
If we are beings that recycle the knowledge that is presented to us how can such an original idea just come out of no where??

People naturally try to find answers. Not all people around the globe believed in a creator. Wishful thinking. Until philosophers started to question the status quo of politics/religion. Through natural answers such as the world isn't flat and other religious answers disproved people "losed their heads." Belief in god was political not an answer to life as was before. If you asked people today "what" is a god, they don't know. But years ago they had cultural implications of what god looked like. Not one god, many.

When you have one ruler its easier I guess to run the show. People are highly influenced by rulers so using god was a good way for population control. As so read from a non atheist site. There is a lot of politics around a creator, culture, and myth that did no disappear between the early CEs and today. Polytheists are probably the oldest theists. Paganism existed way before one-god religions. I'm reading about the semorians in art and they were the ones who started writing. Before it was abstract narrative pictures. Before that they drew what they saw. So I'm assuming god/abstract idea came about later.

God is real. He exists in culture and the beliefs of the community. Christianity is a communal religion. Without a community of christian history would people be christian. Would Christ be a observant jew if no history of Jewish faith and culture and so forth.

Just some atheist and some theist keep looking up. Not more so gods existence, but more so looking away for answers that are found right where we stand.
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Why is it easier to grasp?
For me it was much harder to believe in a God until my personal experience gave my perception undeniable evidence.
I have never had any doubt that God exists since I became a Baha'i 47 years ago, but it never meant that much to me until more recently.

Why was it hard for you to believe in God and what was the personal experience that gave you undeniable evidence?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I believe in God based on my own personal experiences too. However, I think you should probably be content with that, because if you try to argue that "reality" says your relationship is real, and then quote biased sources that have nothing at all to do with you, then people are going to be quick to call you out on it.
Don't we all believe based upon personal experiences, whether it is because of a religion or not?

Yes, people do call me out on it when I say it is because of my religion that I believe, but I do not mind that. :D
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Don't we all believe based upon personal experiences, whether it is because of a religion or not?
In certain areas. For some, with religion, we have replaced belief with what we do know, or, in this case, more specifically what we don't know. Which is a lot.
 
I have heard so many times from atheists, agnostics, etc.. that religion is a natural part of human evolution and we will evolve out of thinking there is a God or dogma.
Why?
There is no way to prove that statement.

Western society developed a teleological view of history as a result of Christianity where time progressed towards a destination - the eschaton. In contrast, the vast majority of societies have had a cyclical view of history.

The secularisation of Western society, contrary to what many atheists like to believe, didn't suddenly jettison 2000 years of cultural influence and start from scratch based on 'reason', it basically evolved into a post-Christian society.

One retained aspect was the teleological view of history where time progresses, although instead of the eschaton, it progresses to a humanistic Western secular liberalism. This view was originally termed the Whig view of history, was summed up more recently as The End of History and generally pervades Secular Humanist thought.

The idea of melioristic progress is one of the core beliefs of Rationalist thought, but it's basically a reworking of a religious salvation narrative.

Problems in human society are seen as 'errors' rather than inescapable aspects of human society. The devil is played by 'unreason', especially religion, and is the source of harms in the word. Reason is basically Divine Providence and it will gradually conquer unreason and solve the ills of humanity.

It is summed up in the Amsterdam Declaration of Humanism "By utilising free inquiry, the power of science and creative imagination for the furtherance of peace and in the service of compassion, we have confidence that we have the means to solve the problems that confront us all."

It is an ideological belief grounded in Humanist myth and fulfils a role provided by aspects of religious belief in others. As such it requires no evidence to serve its role of providing psychological comfort and hope to Humanists.


With ancient tribes why would the name God, or any name for a Creator be mentioned?
I've heard people say it'd be natural to say someone made it, but why would they just think that?
Is it on a whim?
"Oh, I am here.. someone made here."

It is a side effect of our cognition relating to pattern recognition and bias towards seeing agency in events, even if they are random.

Saying someone made it up is a bit misleading, it evolved. Given the diversity of human society and the near ubiquity of such concepts (in various forms) it's pretty clear it is the product of something hardwired into us.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
For me it was much harder to believe in a God until my personal experience gave my perception undeniable evidence.
People confidently believe things that are not true quite commonly.
That's why we distinguish between beliefs that are supported by evidence and those beliefs that are not. So we can get closer to the Truth and put less Faith in the fallible humans who are often mistaken.
Like prophets.
Tom
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
In certain areas. For some, with religion, we have replaced belief with what we do know, or, in this case, more specifically what we don't know. Which is a lot.
There certainly is a lot we do not know about God, more than we can ever know, but we know a few things because of what Messengers of God have revealed. :)
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
I have heard so many times from atheists, agnostics, etc.. that religion is a natural part of human evolution and we will evolve out of thinking there is a God or dogma.
Why?
There is no way to prove that statement.

With ancient tribes why would the name God, or any name for a Creator be mentioned?
I've heard people say it'd be natural to say someone made it, but why would they just think that?
Is it on a whim?
"Oh, I am here.. someone made here."
not a natural thought.

Native Americans that I have spoken with have some of the most beautiful spiritual knowledge and they even have mentioned what they simply call, "The Creator."

How could God just have been thought up if He wasn't real?
If we are beings that recycle the knowledge that is presented to us how can such an original idea just come out of no where??

Its easy to think up a god.

Heck, i can do that now. My god is 10 feet tall and you must say a prayer each time you burp. "God redeems your soul."

I'm still working on the holy scriptures so let me get back to you on that.
 

Aldrnari

Active Member
I know a guy who's a lot stronger than me! Hmmm... I wonder if someone is stronger than him? I wonder if someone could be stronger than that guy- maybe he's strong enough to even lift a tree? Or a mountain? Or the sky?!

Simplistic, I know, but it demonstrates the human imagination, and people's curiosity. Neither should be underestimated.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I have heard so many times from atheists, agnostics, etc.. that religion is a natural part of human evolution and we will evolve out of thinking there is a God or dogma.
Why?
There is no way to prove that statement.

I think you are right. Part of the problem is assuming that humans evolved and were not created by a more powerful and intelligent entity. If we evolved then nothing is planned. We have no hope for the future save what comes from man. :eek: I don't love his track record so far.....do you?

It is strange indeed that the Christian Bible foretold that the majority of humans in this age would be 'godless'....or following only 'a form of godliness, but proving false to its power'. The power of godliness is of course, the ability to make peace with one's fellowman. No religion seems interested in making peace unless it is on their own terms.....the terms always conflict and then there is animosity and an excuse for hatred and even war. Humans have always been like that since the rebellion of Adam and Eve. They left their Creator to do their own thing and lost their paradise. But what and where is the paradise they lost? What and where is the paradise that they are promised as a reward for faithfulness?

With ancient tribes why would the name God, or any name for a Creator be mentioned?

The scriptures mention the name of God (Exodus 3:15; Psalm 83:18) but he is not known by that name today, even by the Jews. He is simply addressed by his titles. No one seems to know why someone, somewhere along the way deemed it too sacred to be uttered in case it broke the 4th Commandment. The ancients used it freely and with reverence.

A nameless god is not worth knowing IMO. If God tells us his name (YHWH) and then says he will be known by that name "forever"....why is no Abrahamic faith using it?

"Hashem" is not a name and neither is "Adonai" or "Lord" or "God". "Allah" is not a name...it is just another word meaning "Lord" or "God". Another nameless god among many. It seems to me that God's worship is rightly connected to his name. Yet no one knows how to say it. Most avoid it, and treat it as if its not proper for humans to use even in reverent conversation.....the ancients used God's name as a greeting, and it is recorded in scripture almost 7,000 times. Search most modern day translations and you will not find it. I am guessing it isn't in the Quran either?

So what is it that makes one religion seem so right and all the others seem so wrong? Why are we not all naturally drawn to the 'right' religion?

What is your view on that? What made Christianity seem wrong to you and Islam seem right?

Native Americans that I have spoken with have some of the most beautiful spiritual knowledge and they even have mentioned what they simply call, "The Creator."

Yes, "The Great Spirit" according to Wiki....

"The Great Spirit, by way of the spiritual leaders, is looked to for spiritual and cultural guidance on both an individual and community level. Cultural variations among the different Native American Tribes who hold a belief in The Great Spirit have resulted in significantly different stories about this being or these beings, as well as different types of messages being delivered by those seen as prophets or spiritual leaders in these cultures."

Doesn't sound much different to what is held to be true by other religions of the world...does it? So how is it possible that one truth (the Great Spirit who created all things) got broken up into so many different cultural stories and modes of worship all over the world? In some cultures, many gods control various aspects of people's lives, yet if there was just one God in the beginning, how was that possible.

If there was just one truth, how did it get lost? How did the human race get so religiously confused?

What are your thoughts?

How could God just have been thought up if He wasn't real?

Logical, isn't it? Why would a similar scenario involving worship of a higher deity or deities find its way into every culture if there was not some truth to it? How would humans evolve to all believe in a higher power(s) and have a need to appease him/her by making offerings? :shrug:

I look forward to your thoughts on these things. :)
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Why no God?

I have heard so many times from atheists, agnostics, etc.. that religion is a natural part of human evolution

We should differentiate religion, the activity, from theism / god-beliefs.

The development of god-beliefs is of course speculative, but possible explanations for it have been found both neurologically and anthropologically.

I don't think that it is quite as universal as you seem to believe, though. Truth be told, I suspect that the current emphasis on theism is a recent development that may well be incompatible or at least extraneous to most religions along human history.

and we will evolve out of thinking there is a God or dogma.
Myself, I don't remember having heard such a thing out of the top of my head.

Then again, I firmly separate religion from god-belief. And you seem to be talking mostly about god-belief.

We should attempt to rise above reliance on god-beliefs, even if we happen to hold them.

Theist and atheist alike. For many reasons, but mainly because clarity of goals and purposes is very much a good thing.

Because reliance on the will of a supposed God is ultimately not very efficient, nor very clear, and opens the way for many serious dangers.

There is no way to prove that statement.
I don't know why the absence of a proof would be significant. We can hardly "prove" anything in life.

Instead, we simply inform ourselves to the best of abilities and take the best decisions that we can.
With ancient tribes why would the name God, or any name for a Creator be mentioned?

Not sure why you are asking this, but my best guess is that the belief in a creator entity was not very widespread. As an article of belief it has very limited appeal and application.

So my answer is that they would mention some name for that entity if they happened to hold such a belief. I assume that it happened fairly often, but not all that often.

I've heard people say it'd be natural to say someone made it, but why would they just think that?
Is it on a whim?
"Oh, I am here.. someone made here."
not a natural thought.

I agree. It is not a natural thought. But it seems to have appeal for some people to the point of indoctrinating their children into taking it as a proven truth to organize their societies around.

Native Americans that I have spoken with have some of the most beautiful spiritual knowledge and they even have mentioned what they simply call, "The Creator."
In its most general terms, it is not an altogether rare belief, of course. It reappears on other cultures and times, at least in part because a certain mindset craves it.

How could God just have been thought up if He wasn't real?

What would the challenge be?

If we are beings that recycle the knowledge that is presented to us how can such an original idea just come out of no where??
Far as I can tell, rather easily.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
People in my culture's traditional mythology that originates from before being converted by Crusades used to believe that the world came from an egg of a diving duck laying it on the knee of the sky goddess or the half-god of poetry. The shells halves became earth and sky, the yolk became the sun and the white became the moon. The neighboring culture used to believe three brothers slaughtered a cow and made the universe from that. Another culture used to believe that the sun died, all kinds of pestilence came on the land, and great heroes ventured out sailing, bringing a new sun and moon while they became the stars in the sky.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
How could God just have been thought up if He wasn't real?
If we are beings that recycle the knowledge that is presented to us how can such an original idea just come out of no where??

If the primitive mind has no history, prior knowledge, or means of explaining something that exists, and it knows man or any other observable being put it there, it must have been put there by a being that is more intelligent and powerful than her/him. Ergo a creator God(s).

Gods have existed over time to explain much what was beyond explanation at the time that specific god was revered and worshiped. The sun, the stars, the moon, emotions...the list goes on and on...
 
Last edited:
Top