Why is the Trinity so controversial?

[lostwanderingsoul]

If you're okay with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost each just being "part" of God and not individually God, then your explanation works. It doesn't work for me, because, just like in your example, there are three individuals, not just one. Three human beings, not just three parts of a single human being.

In other words, "God" can be a collective noun (like family) or not.

First, if Father , son, and Spirit are each fully god then they must all three be completely equal. You can't have one that is more god than the others. But Jesus said in John 14:28 that the Father was greater then himself. Do you really believe there are three persons that are each fully god but one is greater than another? Second, in my example there are indeed three individual people but they make up one family. In the same way there is a father and a son and a spirit that are separate induviduals but they are one god. There is no one individual named "God". There are three individuals named father son and spirit but they are one god.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Is a family like conjured twins? No. So a family is not like the trinity.

But if a father, mother and son all shared one body like a conjured twins , if the father, mother and son was stuck in each other because they shared the same stomach then yes they would be similar the trinity.

So you think the father son and spirit share the same body? Why would that be necessary? When Jesus was on earth he certainly was not sharing a body with the Father who was in heaven at the time.

 

[Starlight]

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[lostwanderingsoul]

What you wrote is not the offical trinity.

Is a family like conjured twins? No. So a family is not like the trinity.

But if a father, mother and son all shared one body like a conjured twins , if the father, mother and son shared the same stomach, nerve system, leggs then yes they would be more similar the trinity.

Who decides what is the "official" trinity? The word trinity is not in the Bible so it means whatever people decide it means. Is your idea better than anyone elses's?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

OK...

"it is a single entity which may be experienced in three different ways"

That's more what I meant to say in the OP

Which also means there can be God, the Holy Spirit, Krishna, and the Father.

Also God, Holy Spirit, Zoroaster and the Father

The List Goes on as all the Messengers tell of a day when the promises they gave would be fulfilled by the Father.

In this age we have God, the Holy Spirit and the Father. The Father has told us this is not a Trinity, it is a Oneness, as we can not seperate any of the Messengers from the Holy Spirit, nor from the Most Great Spirit, God.

Regards Tony

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

They share one essence or being. So according to offical trinity docterine they are not separate individuals.

Where does that come from? When Jesus was on the cross, was that just an "essence"? Was that the Father's body on the cross? Why would Jesus pray to the Father if they were just one essence. People use this excuse to try to explain something that they do not understand.

 

[Katzpur]

First, if Father , son, and Spirit are each fully god then they must all three be completely equal. You can't have one that is more god than the others.

It's not a matter of one being "more god" than the others. I believe they are equal in terms of their divinity, but not in terms of their relationship to one another. Two human beings may be equal in terms of their humanity while one may have a subservient relationship to the other.

But Jesus said in John 14:28 that the Father was greater then himself.

He absolutely did.

Do you really believe there are three persons that are each fully god but one is greater than another?

I most certainly do. They are each fully God, (John 1:1 says that "the Word was God.") but as you already pointed out, Jesus acknowledged the Father as His God.

Second, in my example there are indeed three individual people but they make up one family. In the same way there is a father and a son and a spirit that are separate induviduals but they are one god. There is no one individual named "God". There are three individuals named father son and spirit but they are one god.

Is that what you think I said -- that there is an individual named "God"? Better go back and reread my post. "God" is a title. It can be applied to more than one individual.

 

[Katzpur]

First, if Father , son, and Spirit are each fully god then they must all three be completely equal. You can't have one that is more god than the others.

It's not a matter of one being "more god" than the others. I believe they are equal in terms of their divinity, but not in terms of their relationship to one another. Two human beings may be equal in terms of their humanity while one may have a subservient relationship to the other.

But Jesus said in John 14:28 that the Father was greater then himself.

He absolutely did.

Do you really believe there are three persons that are each fully god but one is greater than another?

I absolutely do. They are each fully God, (John 1:1 says that "the Word was God.") but as you already pointed out, Jesus acknowledged the Father as His God.

Second, in my example there are indeed three individual people but they make up one family. In the same way there is a father and a son and a spirit that are separate induviduals but they are one god. There is no one individual named "God". There are three individuals named father son and spirit but they are one god.

Is that what you think I said -- that there is an individual named "God"? Better go back and reread my post. "God" is a title. It can be applied to more than one individual, even though within the "family," so to speak, one reigns supreme.

 

[Starlight]

Who decides what is the "official" trinity? The word trinity is not in the Bible so it means whatever people decide it means. Is your idea better than anyone elses's?

I'm not christian. I do not believe in the trinity. It is the catholic, protestant and ortodox priests and leaders who decides that.

By the way I do think you may be right about that you believe in the offical trinity if you believe the three persons in God never can be split apart. That they always are togheter as one. Thats the social trinity theory: Social trinitarianism - Wikipedia
If you believe in this then i was wrong in my two latests posts.

But if you believe they can split apart, that they can function on their own then thats not trinity.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

No the trinity is not my idea. It is the catholic, protestant and ortodox priests and leaders who decides that.

By the way I do think you may be right about that you believe in the offical trinity if you believe the three persons in God never can be split apart. That they always are togheter as one. Thats the social trinity theory: Social trinitarianism - Wikipedia
If you believe in this then i was wrong in my two latests posts.

But if you believe they can split apart, that they can function on their own then thats not trinity.

No I do not believe they can never be split apart. I believe the Father and Son are always separate from each other. And I do not believe the Spirit is a separate third person. God is a spirit, there is no physical body. And since God is holy that spirit that is God is holy.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It's not a matter of one being "more god" than the others. I believe they are equal in terms of their divinity, but not in terms of their relationship to one another. Two human beings may be equal in terms of their humanity while one may have a subservient relationship to the other.

He absolutely did.

I absolutely do. They are each fully God, (John 1:1 says that "the Word was God.") but as you already pointed out, Jesus acknowledged the Father as His God.

Is that what you think I said -- that there is an individual named "God"? Better go back and reread my post. "God" is a title. It can be applied to more than one individual, even though within the "family," so to speak, one reigns supreme.

No I did not say there is an individual baned god or that you said this. But I think the name "God" could be thought of like a family name. Sam Jones and Susan Jones and John Jones are three separate people that make up a family named Jones. Fathe God and Son God and Spirit God are three separate "Persons" that male up one family named God.

 

[Starlight]

No I do not believe they can never be split apart. I believe the Father and Son are always separate from each other. And I do not believe the Spirit is a separate third person. God is a spirit, there is no physical body. And since God is holy that spirit that is God is holy.

Do you not believe they are one in some sense?

 

[shunyadragon]

Is a family like conjured twins? No. So a family is not like the trinity.

But if a father, mother and son all shared one body like a conjured twins , if the father, mother and son was stuck in each other because they shared the same stomach then yes they would be similar the trinity.

Stretching analogies far too thin to be real.

 

[shunyadragon]

The "family" is God. Not three gods. Not polytheism. Would you say that the three people in a human family is poly family ism? So why polytheism just because there are three persons in God?

poly family is not real physical analogies are not comparable to spiritual realities of Gods.

 

[Starlight]

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[shunyadragon]

Psychological trinity model

Aquinas thinks that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, while referred to as 'persons,' are not in any way like separate individuals . He thinks the essential distinction that makes up the Trinity is one of relationships that occur within God.

God the Father represents God. Proceeding from God is God's concept of himself, or his self-knowledge (what Aquinas thinks of as God's Son, jesus). And the Holy Spirit is the relationship of love between God's self-knowledge and God.

Remember the psycological trinity is also offical trinity.

But in this trinity version God did not create Jesus or the holy spirit. They was made when God thought about himself. So Jesus is God's thought about himself and Holy spirit is the love between God and God's thought about himself (Jesus).

Source: Aquinas Blog - the Trinity

I think this version of the trinity make good sense And no it is not modalism because the psychological trinity belief is that both God, God's self-knowledge (Jesus) and God's love between them (holy spirit) has their own form of self-conciousness.

I think this version of trinity is very much alike what Eddi wrote above: t's a single entitiy made up of three separate parts. Just like a triangle is a single entity made out of three separate lines...

It is almost impossible to say this is polyteism

A horse will always be a horse whether you describe it as a horse or call it a horse.

Self justification to make it good sense only convinces those that believe it beforehand.

 

[Starlight]

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[paarsurrey]

I don't understand how The Holy Trinity is so controversial...

And I don't see why it is taken to be polytheism either

It seems to make perfect sense to me:

View attachment 44829
It's a single entitiy made up of three separate parts

Just like a triangle is a single entity made out of three separate lines...

It says that God is a single entity which we may know as either a Father, the Holy Spirit, or as Jesus Christ

I know people find this confusing and call it polytheism but I don't really know why...

I'm not out to bicker or debate, I genuinely want to know

I'm especially interested in the accusation of polytheism

"I don't understand how The Holy Trinity is so controversial..."

I understand, Mary never believed in any Trinity, she never worshiped trinity, she never worshiped Holy Ghost, she never worshiped Jesus. Right, please?

Regards
_____________
[5:74]
لَقَدۡ کَفَرَ الَّذِیۡنَ قَالُوۡۤا اِنَّ اللّٰہَ ثَالِثُ ثَلٰثَۃٍ ۘ وَ مَا مِنۡ اِلٰہٍ اِلَّاۤ اِلٰہٌ وَّاحِدٌ ؕ وَ اِنۡ لَّمۡ یَنۡتَہُوۡا عَمَّا یَقُوۡلُوۡنَ لَیَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا مِنۡہُمۡ عَذَابٌ اَلِیۡمٌ ﴿۷۴﴾
They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 5: Al-Ma'idah

 

[Starlight]

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[shunyadragon]

? Explain better

Explain what? The arguments for the Trinity are circular, and are only made dense by those that believe it.

As described by @Lumac the concept of the Trinity and an incarnate Son of God is totally in conflict with the Tanakh.