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Why is God hiding? Answer to atheists
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
So this is all just some sort of Simulated Game?
Do We Live in a Simulation? Chances Are about 50–50
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
1. Many people claim that god shows himself to them, so how does god decide who he will show himself to and who he will hide from?
Basically the argument seems to be "if you believe in him, he will show himself to you", which is circular logic 101.
If you already believe in him there is not need for him to show himself. If he doesn't show himself, why would you believe in him, because all the evidence and rational argument points to no god (or at least, none of the gods of religion).
2. This life cannot be "a test" if god is omniscient because he already knows exactly how we will act in every situation, and a test is a process to find out unknown information.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I do agree this life is a test for human beings.
But i do not believe God is hiding at all
I believe humans are blinded by materialism and ego, thats why humans can not see God.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
1.God is not showing himself to all believers. Most people who believe in God, believe in God without God showing himself.
2.It is not certain God is really omniscient
The Gods are watching us to understand just how it all went wrong. What was in their past?
He is not hiding. So, no need to get crazy finding reasons thereof, when there is a much simpler explanation.
By the way. Have all dead children, miscarried human embryos, been tested too?,
Ciao
- viole
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
From a spiritual p.o.v that could be a reason yes, we can not know if a human are born in to this world with some form of karma that lead to suffering in physical form.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I do agree this life is a test for human beings.
But i do not believe God is hiding at all
I believe humans are blinded by materialism and ego, thats why humans can not see God.
As a child, I genuinely sought God in the hope that he would save me from the abuse I suffered at home and in the hope that he would stop the constant bullying I endured while in school. And in spite of my genuine prayers to God and seeking him, I suffered severe abuse for 13 1/2 years, and I was cruelly bullied and harassed throughout the years I was in school. I spent years praying and seeking God when I was a child, but I was left all alone to suffer the abuse and bullying while I was growing up, and neither God nor anyone else in my life ever lifted a finger to save me. I saved myself when I confronted my abusers face-to-face shortly after I turned 18 years old. I never saw God in my life while growing up, but it wasn't because I was blinded by materialism or because of my ego. It was because God and everyone else in my life willfully turned a blind eye to the abuse and bullying I was suffering.
Your question is one way of putting a question that gets more to the point:
Why is it that God is indistinguishable - in every way we can observe or measure - from a god that doesn't exist at all?
One potential answer seems obvious.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
We have similar experience, i was bullied for about 12 years. So i do understand what you have gone through.
This is your answer to atheists? Which of them discuss gods with you as if they exist?
What do you suppose this deity is testing? Loyalty? Honesty? That people are doing what they're expected to do? Why would an omniscient god do that?
Gods in hiding either don't exist, or they cannot make themselves manifest, or they are indifferent to mankind, or they don't know we exist. That's this atheist's answer. I wouldn't go to a believer for help there, since I already know his answer, so why make him say it? It will be a just-so explanation for why a god could have made itself manifest, but chose not to for some noble, beneficent reason beyond my understanding.
It's encouraging, however, that you acknowledge that if there is a god, it is inapparent. Usually, we hear that we see this deity and are trying to elude it to go have fun, or that the deity is apparent but that we lack a prepared mind to see it, or that the evidence is everywhere, not hidden.
Maybe that was the lesson all the prayers were showing you. That in the end we are accountable only for our own actions.
Ones own strength of character during those times make you the adult you will become.
My wife suffered likewise, it resulted in a life of manic depression, which though treated, still shapes our lives. My wife found God for us, in just reading this prayer.
"O God! Refresh and gladden my spirit. Purify my heart. Illumine my powers. I lay all my affairs in Thy hand. Thou art my Guide and my Refuge. I will no longer be sorrowful and grieved; I will be a happy and joyful being. O God! I will no longer be full of anxiety, nor will I let trouble harass me. I will not dwell on the unpleasant things of life.
O God! Thou art more friend to me than I am to myself. I dedicate myself to Thee, O Lord."
‘Abdu’l-Bahá
So can we know the wisdom why we are subjected to such events? We are told we can, but it is up to us not to give up on finding that wisdom.
Regards Tony
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Sorry, but I don't believe that life is a test from God. I think that's a cop-out for believers to ignore the uncomfortable truth that God allows people to endure immeasurable pain and suffering. Believers love to talk about how much God loves us and how he sent his son to die for us, but they begin to squirm uncomfortably whenever an unbeliever reminds them of all the atrocities that God has committed, which are recorded in the Bible, or an unbeliever reminds them of all the terrible atrocities that God allowed to happen throughout the history of humanity. Believers also begin to squirm uncomfortably whenever I mention Isaiah 45:7 to them.
King James Version
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the Lord do all these things."
Evil:
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked, 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, 3. Characterized by or indicating misfortune; ominous.
New International Version
"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and CREATE DISASTER; I, the LORD, do all these things."
Disaster:
1. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe, 2. A grave misfortune, and 3. A total failure.
English Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and CREATE CALAMITY; I am the LORD, who does all these things."
Calamity: 1. An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster, 2. Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy, 3. Any great misfortune or cause of misery; in general, any event or disaster which produces extensive evils, as loss of crops, earthquakes, etc., but also applied to any misfortune which brings great distress on a person; misfortune; distress; adversity.
It's also written in the Bible, "The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4
I can't speak for anyone else, but a God who creates evil, disasters, and calamities to purposely screw up people's lives and inflict pain and suffering upon people (which affects men, women, children, and infants) doesn't sound like a loving and merciful God to me. On the contrary, that's a sadistic and psychopathic God, who cruelly manipulates his creation for his own personal pleasure. Everything in his creation is nothing more than his playthings, and that includes humanity. Humanity only exists for God's personal pleasure to either be kept alive to endure immense pain and suffering, or to be killed in some disaster, or to be mercilessly killed in cold blood by another human being. And please don't fall back on the free will excuse. If you saw someone being stabbed to death by another person, you wouldn't say, "I'm not going to stop that person from being killed because I don't want to infringe on their attackers' free will." You would be morally depraved if you saw someone else being killed by another person and you walked away.
If the Bible is accurate, then it's true that God ordered his chosen people, the Israelites, to wipe the Amalekites off the face of the earth, killing every single man, woman, child, infant, and all their animals (Deuteronomy 25:17; Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2-3). If the Bible is accurate, then it's true that God threw a colossal temper tantrum and wiped out humanity (with the exception of one family) off the face of the Earth with a worldwide flood, thus committing global genocide. If the Bible is accurate, then God is a sadistic psychopathic genocidal maniac who takes pleasure in deliberately creating total pandemonium throughout his creation, and then he sits back and watches his creation tear itself apart, and he does nothing to stop all the violence and human suffering.
The hardships of life aren't a test; they're the result of a sadistic God who deliberately creates evil, disasters, and calamities that will inflict immeasurable pain and suffering upon his creation, human beings. That's not a loving and merciful God. That's a cruel God.
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Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Sorry, but I don't accept the alleged reason you mentioned, and I'm not even remotely interested in praying to God anymore.
Isn't it funny how the "lessons" God provides always seem to involve complete inaction on the part of God?
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
It almost sounds like what a Christian therapist told me about how I was personally responsible for the abuse I suffered. I suppose it's not quite the same as a pastor telling me that I'm a cursed soul and God hates me, and it's obvious to him that God is punishing me for the sins of my biological parents. Of course, there was also the usual, "You didn't have enough faith in God for him to save you" excuse for why God never bothered to intervene and save me from all the abuse and bullying I suffered while growing up.
Well I would offer most people do not see it as funny, but as a sad reflection of the capacity of mankind, to which we are all part of.
The knowledge of God is that of the Spirit, thus any interaction we have with God is in Spirit of the virtues we choose to embrace.
The world changes as we so choose to be.
There is no magic wand.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yeah, a game God likes to play.
It's called push the residents as far as you can to see if they will finally move out. Fun and games.