Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[rstrats]

Mestemia,

re: "...you have absolutely NOTHING to verify which day said sabbath is supposed to be."



"The week of seven days has been in use ever since the days of the Mosaic dispensation, and we have no reason for supposing that any irregularities have existed in the succession of weeks and their days from that time to the present." --Dr. W.W. Campbell, Statement. [Dr. Campbell was Director of Lick Observatory, Mt. Hamilton, California.]


"As far as I know, in the various changes of the Calendar there has been no change in the seven day rota of the week, which has come down from very early times." --F.W. Dyson, Personal letter, dated March 4, 1932. [Dr. Dyson was Astronomer Royal, Royal Observatory, Greenwich, London.]


"As to Question (1)--I can only state that in connection with the proposed simplification of the calendar, we have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era.

"As to Question (2) --There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week." --James robertson, personal letter, dated March 12, 1932. [Dr. robertson was Director of the American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C.]


"In spite of all of our dickerings with the calendar, it is patent that the human race never lost the septenary [seven-day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, through the ages, without a single lapse." --Dr. Totten, Statement. [Dr. Totten of New Haven, Connecticut, was Professor of Astronomy at Yale University when this statement was made.]


The Sabbath that the Messiah honored was the Sabbath that his fellow countrymen used. They had honored it for centuries. If He had been honoring it on the incorrect day, then He would have been in violation of the Commandment and therefore not sinless. The "Catholic Encyclopedia", Vol. 3, p. 740, article ‘Chronology’ says: "It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted."
If you have documentation that shows that the seven day cycle has been interrupted at some point between the first century and now I would very much like to see it.

 

[McBell]

Mestemia,

re: "...you have absolutely NOTHING to verify which day said sabbath is supposed to be."



"The week of seven days has been in use ever since the days of the Mosaic dispensation, and we have no reason for supposing that any irregularities have existed in the succession of weeks and their days from that time to the present." --Dr. W.W. Campbell, Statement. [Dr. Campbell was Director of Lick Observatory, Mt. Hamilton, California.]


"As far as I know, in the various changes of the Calendar there has been no change in the seven day rota of the week, which has come down from very early times." --F.W. Dyson, Personal letter, dated March 4, 1932. [Dr. Dyson was Astronomer Royal, Royal Observatory, Greenwich, London.]


"As to Question (1)--I can only state that in connection with the proposed simplification of the calendar, we have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era.

"As to Question (2) --There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week." --James robertson, personal letter, dated March 12, 1932. [Dr. robertson was Director of the American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C.]


"In spite of all of our dickerings with the calendar, it is patent that the human race never lost the septenary [seven-day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, through the ages, without a single lapse." --Dr. Totten, Statement. [Dr. Totten of New Haven, Connecticut, was Professor of Astronomy at Yale University when this statement was made.]


The Sabbath that the Messiah honored was the Sabbath that his fellow countrymen used. They had honored it for centuries. If He had been honoring it on the incorrect day, then He would have been in violation of the Commandment and therefore not sinless. The "Catholic Encyclopedia", Vol. 3, p. 740, article ‘Chronology’ says: "It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted."
If you have documentation that shows that the seven day cycle has been interrupted at some point between the first century and now I would very much like to see it.

Perhaps YOU would be so kind as to present the scripture that specifies what day is the first day.

Since I am not arguing how many days there are/were in a week, your whole post here is nothing but a strawman argument.

The only thing I am asking for is something other than "the seventh day is the sabbath."
Perhaps you will be the first in over 2000 years to present scripture that tells us which of the seven days of the week (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday) is the first...
As long as you and irving have nothing other than "the seventh day is the sabbath' without specifying any of the other days, you have nothing.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Perhaps YOU would be so kind as to present the scripture that specifies what day is the first day.
Matthew 28:1
[ He Is Risen ] Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
Since I am not arguing how many days there are/were in a week, your whole post here is nothing but a strawman argument.
If you are not arguing the days of the week - and we have established they have not changed - you can count - should already know what day is the Sabbath. Remember the names of the week were added later in earths history.

The only thing I am asking for is something other than "the seventh day is the sabbath."post #277
Perhaps you will be the first in over 2000 years to present scripture that tells us which of the seven days of the week (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday) is the first... Are you kidding? The Jews are all over scripture
As long as you and irving have nothing other than "the seventh day is the sabbath' without specifying any of the other days, you have nothing.

Please define specify? I've given you many scriptures that reveal the "Identity "of the days of the week referred to in the Bible.(in this and other posts) Are not the Jews mentioned throughout scripture? I have thousands of years of documented history . What do you have to share to the contrary? Does anyone else understand what Mestemia is trying to say?

The Jewish people have been observing the seventh day from the time of Abraham, and they still keep it today. Here is a whole nation - millions of individuals - who have been counting off time meticulously, week after week, calendar or no calendar, for thousands of years. Could they have lost track? Impossible. The only way they could have lost a day would have been for the entire nation to have slept over an extra 24 hours and for no one ever to tell them about it afterwards.
There has been no change or loss of the Sabbath since God made it in Genesis. The origin of the week is found in the creation story. There is no scientific or astronomical reason for measuring time in cycles of seven days. It is an arbitrary arrangement of God and has been miraculously preserved for one reason - because the holy Sabbath day points to the creative power of the only true God. It is a sign of His sovereignty over the world and over human life; a sign of creation and redemption.
ST.org

 

[d.n.irvin]

joeboonda,

re: "Believers were told to meet on the first day of the week and give offerings."

I’m not aware of any scripture that says that. What do you have in mind?


re: "This is referred to many times as the Lord's day."

Nor am I aware of any scripture that calls the first day of the week the "Lord’s day".


re: " This is also the day of the resurrection..."


I am not aware of any incontrovertible scripture that says that the resurrection took place on the first day of the week. What do you have in mind?

Hey nice to see another TRUTH SEEKER .... welcome rstrats

 

[McBell]

Please define specify? I've given you many scriptures that reveal the "Identity "of the days of the week referred to in the Bible.(in this and other posts) Are not the Jews mentioned throughout scripture? I have thousands of years of documented history . What do you have to share to the contrary? Does anyone else understand what Mestemia is trying to say?

Which day of the week is the sabbath: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?

What scripture clearly indicates which of the above days is the sabbath?
answer: NONE OF THEM.
The only thing you have is "the seventh day."

 

[sojourner]

Make no mistake about it:

You worship on Sunday -because the papacy changed the Day. They claim responsibility for it. Bible prophecy points out they would do it.

The Church was worshiping on the first day of the week before there was such a thing as "the papacy." In any case, why should "the papacy" be categorically wrong? The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, is he not?

**Romans 13:10 Therefore love is the fulfilling(completing) of the law(10 Commands).

here's the crux of the whole matter. Christ fulfilled the Law. We fulfill the Law because we are in Christ. Love is the operative dynamic here, not the "keeping" of the Law. Love is the goal, not becoming righteous, for we are already reconciled to God through Christ. (BTW, "the Law" is much, much more than the decalogue. Do you faithfully keep all the Law? If not, then it would appear that you're in violation of your own rligious principles.)

 

[rocka21]

Irvin, lets get to the chase.

what do you think will happen to me if i don't worship on the sabbath?

i am a christian that goes to church on sunday. ( and wednesday also). i spend most saturdays at the mall or relaxing.

can you tell me my fate please?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"In spite of all of our dickerings with the calendar, it is patent that the human race never lost the septenary [seven-day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, through the ages, without a single lapse." --Dr. Totten, Statement. [Dr. Totten of New Haven, Connecticut, was Professor of Astronomy at Yale University when this statement was made.]

I find it astounding that a Yale professor would make a claim that implies:

- that a literal interpretation of the Bible (specifically Genesis) is definitely correct
- without any evidence at all, that in the hectic and confusing days following the expulsion from Eden, Adam never once forgot what day of the week it was.

Heck... I forget what day of the week it is myself sometimes, and I don't even have guilt of being the cause of Original Sin and the loss of paradise rattling around in my head. When that happens, I check a calendar; what did Adam have to check?

The Sabbath that the Messiah honored was the Sabbath that his fellow countrymen used. They had honored it for centuries. If He had been honoring it on the incorrect day, then He would have been in violation of the Commandment and therefore not sinless. The "Catholic Encyclopedia", Vol. 3, p. 740, article ‘Chronology’ says: "It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted."
If you have documentation that shows that the seven day cycle has been interrupted at some point between the first century and now I would very much like to see it.

Jesus is specifically portrayed as defying the commandment, regardless of which day of the week the Sabbath is. He gives reasons for doing so, but by the letter of the law, He broke it. If He can break this commandment and stay sinless as you say He did, why do you think that it's a sin for others to do likewise?

 

[d.n.irvin]

Which day of the week is the sabbath: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?

What scripture clearly indicates which of the above days is the sabbath?
answer: NONE OF THEM.
The only thing you have is "the seventh day."

What scripture clearly indicates which of the above days is the NOT Sabbath?

 

[d.n.irvin]

I find it astounding that a Yale professor would make a claim that implies:

- that a literal interpretation of the Bible (specifically Genesis) is definitely correct
Romans 3:3
For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
- without any evidence at all, that in the hectic and confusing days following the expulsion from Eden, Adam never once forgot what day of the week it was.

Heck... I forget what day of the week it is myself sometimes, and I don't even have guilt of being the cause of Original Sin and the loss of paradise rattling around in my head. When that happens, I check a calendar; what did Adam have to check?
GOD,

Jesus is specifically portrayed as defying the commandment, regardless of which day of the week the Sabbath is. He gives reasons for doing so, but by the letter of the law, He broke it. If He can break this commandment and stay sinless as you say He did, why do you think that it's a sin for others to do likewise?

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath - So how could he break the Sabbath? - Because I am accused of something, that automatically means I did it? Read it again

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Heck... I forget what day of the week it is myself sometimes, and I don't even have guilt of being the cause of Original Sin and the loss of paradise rattling around in my head. When that happens, I check a calendar; what did Adam have to check?

GOD,

And presumably you can quote the Biblical passages that indicate that Adam relied on God to tell which day of the week was which, right?

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath - So how could he break the Sabbath? - Because I am accused of something, that automatically means I did it? Read it again

So no matter what Jesus does, it does not break the fourth commandment? If that is the case, then why would the day that Jesus worshipped have any bearing on which one is correct?*


*As rstrats suggested: that because Jesus was sinless, and the days of the week are supposedly undisturbed from Gospel times to now, that what Jesus called the Sabbath must be the true Sabbath, because otherwise He would have violated the commandment and hence not be sinless... rstrats, is that a fair description of your argument?

 

[McBell]

What scripture clearly indicates which of the above days is the NOT Sabbath?

I was asking you.
Seems that you do not have an answer (no surprise) so are now trying to turn it back to me.

The only thing you have presented, scripture wise, is that the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth days are not the sabbath.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Irvin, lets get to the chase.

what do you think will happen to me if i don't worship on the sabbath?
** You should only be concerned with what the Bible has to say, not what I think

John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

**God winks at your ignorance. Paul said,

1 Timothy 1:13
although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

i am a christian that goes to church on sunday. ( and wednesday also). i spend most saturdays at the mall or relaxing.

can you tell me my fate please?

Only you can answer that question? If you didn't know the Sabbath Truth before these posts you know now. Sunday worship -is a commandment of men! Pray about it.

1 John 2:5
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

In my signature the verse Matt. 24:14 - Where does it say people will believe first?

**The Holy Spirit convicts us of our errors, as Christians we are commissioned to spread the word.

Romans 3:3
For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?

**Remember.... the 4th Commandment starts with Remember- What does God want us- ALL MEN to Remember?

 

[rocka21]

Only you can answer that question? If you didn't know the Sabbath Truth before these posts you know now. Sunday worship -is a commandment of men! Pray about it.

In my signature the verse Matt. 24:14 - Where does it say people will believe first?

**The Holy Spirit convicts us of our errors, as Christians we are commissioned to spread the word.

**Remember.... the 4th Commandment starts with Remember- What does God want us- ALL MEN to Remember?

God Answered! he is ok with church on sunday! :angel2:

the Holy Spirit has not convicted me of this error.

you keep on spreading this Saturday church doctrine brother, i will go save the lost and win hurting souls to the lord.

we will see the judge in the end i guess.

Judge me - for preaching , helping, teaching, praying with , and saving souls. ( i avarage about 100 people every month for the last ten years that raise there hand to say yes to Jesus).

To bad it was all for not because i didn't do it on Saturdays. DARN!

 

[d.n.irvin]

The Church was worshiping on the first day of the week before there was such a thing as "the papacy."
Where?
In any case, why should "the papacy" be categorically wrong? The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, is he not?
Wrong?
here's the crux of the whole matter. Christ fulfilled the Law. We fulfill the Law because we are in Christ. Love is the operative dynamic here, not the "keeping" of the Law. Love is the goal, not becoming righteous, for we are already reconciled to God through Christ. (BTW, "the Law" is much, much more than the decalogue. Do you faithfully keep all the Law? If not, then it would appear that you're in violation of your own rligious principles.)

Taken from post # 261

Christ spoke these words Himself: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Let it read: Don't think I came to destroy(nullify)the law(10 Commandments) or the prophets(Old Testament): Again I came not to destroy(nullify) but to Fulfill(complete)

Lets look at another example of the use of the word "fulfill":

John 15:25
But this happened that the word might be fulfilled(completed) which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

one more

Colossians 1:25
of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill(complete, accomplish) the word of God,

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14

]No longer necessary for us to keep in order to define our righteousness?

Paul says,
Quote:
.
For All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God [and] By the law is the knowledge of sin [For] The wages of sin is death.
[Therefore] God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law(10 Commands) might be fulfilled(completed, accomplished) in us.
[So], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law(10 Commands) Therefore love is the fulfilling(completing) of the law. [It is because we LOVE Him ,that we keep his commands]

What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid

BTW, "the Law" is much, much more than the decalogue.
According to the Bible- "the Law" -that God wrote with his own hand- There are only "10" which can be summed up as "Love the Lord & Love Man"

Now because we live in a world of Sin - We need instructions on "How God Wants US" to do this. The "Ten Commandments"


Love is the goal, not becoming righteous ?

This is a TYPO? yes

 

[d.n.irvin]

God Answered! he is ok with church on sunday! :angel2:
Unbiblical - Romans changed the day
the Holy Spirit has not convicted me of this error.
give it time -have courage to accept the Truth. pray about it

you keep on spreading this Saturday church doctrine? brother, i will go save the lost and win hurting souls to the lord.

you keep on spreading the "Catholic Church Doctrine" Sunday worship

Look I understand that the overlooked, so to speak- aspect of the Seventh -Day Sabbath, is way different from the "Peace and Prosperity" message to which you are a custom. But I assure you, it is important to God.

BTW: Do you know what a Protestant is?

we will see the judge in the end i guess.
Judge me - for preaching , helping, teaching, praying with , and saving souls. ( i avarage about 100 people every month for the last ten years that raise there hand to say yes to Jesus).

John 12:47
And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

To bad it was all for not because i didn't do it on Saturdays. DARN!

a friendly.....

Matthew 7:21
[ I Never Knew You ] “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [For] Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?

There will be many people in " Heaven" that will be saved - never knowing the full spectrum of the Gospel-- They lived according to the knowledge and light that they had. God judges accordingly. However, those who walk in the knowledge of the light that he has- given, and "heed not His words" woe be unto him.

"Those who know to do better, do better!"

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

But don't take my word for it

These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

 

[rocka21]

a friendly.....

Quote:
Matthew 7:21
[ I Never Knew You ] “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [For] Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?
Yeah thats a friendly quote alright. do you think he was refering to me?

let me finish it for you. Depart for i never knew you. look that word Knew up in the greek. it means not a any time did the lord know me. So you think the lord NEVER knew me? LOL. I love people that pull this scripture out there back pocket.

I think he was talking about people who NEVER accepted Jesus as there lord. hence the word NEVER.

so nice try, but try again.

i am glad you think the lord will tell the other billions of christians depart and only keep the SDA's around in heaven because they went to church on saturdays. LOL

what a JOKE!

the JW's can keep you company( they go on saturdays too!)

 

[d.n.irvin]

a friendly.....

Quote:
Matthew 7:21
[ I Never Knew You ] “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [For] Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?
Yeah thats a friendly quote alright. do you think he was refering to me?

let me finish it for you. Depart for i never knew you. look that word Knew up in the greek. it means not a any time did the lord know me. So you think the lord NEVER knew me? LOL. I love people that pull this scripture out there back pocket.

I think he was talking about people who NEVER accepted Jesus as there lord. hence the word NEVER.

so nice try, but try again.

i am glad you think the lord will tell the other billions of christians depart and only keep the SDA's around in heaven because they went to church on saturdays. LOL

what a JOKE!

the JW's can keep you company( they go on saturdays too!)

What denomination are you?

 

[rocka21]

What denomination are you?

I am Non- denominational. my church website is by my name.

and on another note.

have you ever notice people that use that scripture, most of the time never have those things happen in there church.

i wonder when the last time a demon was cast our or a tonuge and prophesy was done at an SDA church? so that scrpture must be talking about the holy rollers!LOL we actually lay hands and prophesy and cast out devils.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Caution!
Only Truth Investigators should read the following:

Almost the whole Christian world reverences Sunday, did God know that this attempt to change His holy Sabbath would occur?

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7:25

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:28-30

Who is responsible for all of the confusion regarding the Sabbath?

The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame – for the change.” This Rock, The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997[/QUOTE]

"The first observance of Sunday- that history records is in the fourth century', when Constantine issued an edict (not requiring its religious observance, but simply abstinence from work) reading, 'let all the judges and people of the town rest and all the various trades be suspended on the venerable day of the sun.' At the time of the issue of this edict, Constantine was a sun-worshipper; therefore it could have had no relation whatever to Christianity." - *HENRY M. TABER. "Faith or Fact" (preface by Robert G. Ingersoll), page 112.

"I challenge any priest or minister of the Christian religion to show me the slightest authority for the religious observance of Sunday. And, if such cannot be shown by them, why is it that they are constantly preaching about Sunday as a holy day? ...The claim that Sunday takes the place of Saturday, and that because the Jews were supposed to be commanded to keep the seventh day of the week holy, therefore the first day of the week should be so kept by Christians, is so utterly absurd as to be hardly worth considering....That Paul habitually observed and preached on the seventh day of the week, is shown in Acts 18:4-'And be reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath' (Saturday)."-Id., pages ,114, 116.