Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[d.n.irvin]

The Ten Commandment Laws aren't really "Commandments" or "Laws" in the totalitarian sort of way.

They were codified at Sinai, for the most part because of the "Conditioning" the Israelites had received in Egypt over the many years. So many false beliefs had taken over the people, they needed to have "two tables written in stone, with Gods own finger on it" to help them understand his- Love for them.

Now the time has come, that God is writing his Ten Commandment laws of- Love, into the hearts and minds of the people. Jesus says, if you love Me--- If you- love Me- then you will automatically keep the Ten Commandments -not because I command you- but because you -- love Me. For all of our sins are unto God- and if we love God we will most certainly Love our fellow man.

We Love God because He first Loved us.

 

[d.n.irvin]

The work of faith means more than we think. It means genuine reliance upon the naked word of God. By our actions we are to show that we believe that God will do just as He has said. The wheels of nature and of providence are not appointed to roll backward nor to stand still. We must have an advancing, working faith, a faith that works by love and purifies the soul from every vestige of selfishness. It is not self, but God, that we must depend upon. We must not cherish unbelief. We must have that faith that takes God at His word. . . . "From that I may know him" p226 p2

Faith without works is dead- we must act on our Faith in Gods word.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

But God made the Sabbath at Creation- before the Jews

That is really some messed up theology if you are going to try and relate the sabbath commandment to God's seventh day of rest in creation and try and state that it is an eternal commandment. For example why was no one put to death for working on Saturday befor Mt. Sinai?

 

[sojourner]

According to Bible prophecy you are wrong? The scriptures clearly predict this would happen. Further more the "Papacy" readily claims responsibility. Like You said in post # 295 Not- according to scripture. If I understand you correctly, you are inferring that "the Pope" has the final say over all religious matters including the change of the Sabbath?
If that is your position, then you validate scripture by your own words.

The real question is why after so much non-biblical evidence you still have doubts. You don't even have to have Faith to believe those claims. So here is what the infallible word of God has to say about it.
1260 Day Prophecy
check out post 75-79 in "Is Bible prophecy reliable?"
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55011&page=8
You don't have to believe the "Papacy" changed the Seventh-Day Sabbath of Creation- the only day that I know of that He sanctified - to unholy Sunday -the first day of the week. Your unbelief does not negate Truth. Neither does the belief of the masses promote Truth. "Remember" only eight believed Noah.

This is a circular argument and does not adequately address the issue at hand.

 

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by d.n.irvin
But God made the Sabbath at Creation- before the Jews

But it was the Jews who created, interpreted, and propagated the story. Therefore, the story is written under the POV and assumptions of the Jews.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Prayer and Bible study will impart truth to all those who seek it.

Romans 14 may be enlightening, especially the parts I've bolded:

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

I take the meaning of this passage to be "do what you feel is right, but don't condemn those who don't behave as you do, for it may be right for them." Do you agree?

 

[d.n.irvin]

That is really some messed up theology if you are going to try and relate the sabbath commandment to God's seventh day of rest in creation and try and state that it is an eternal commandment.

[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot] Your word, O LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens. Psalms.119:89 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Psalms.119:160[/FONT]

Christ clearly taught that "the sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. The fact is that Adam was the only man in existence at the time God made the Sabbath. There were no Jews in the world for at least 2,000 years after creation. It could never have been made for them. Jesus used the term "man" in the generic sense, referring to mankind. The same word is used in connection with the institution of marriage which was also introduced at creation. Woman was made for man just as the Sabbath was made for man. Certainly no one believes that marriage was made only for the Jews.

For example why was no one put to death for working on Saturday befor Mt. Sinai?

You will have to ask God why no one was put to death before Sinai, and I assume by "no one" you mean the Israelites. But God certainly reprimanded the people for Sabbath breaking before Sinai. Exodus 16:24-30

 

[d.n.irvin]

This is a circular argument and does not adequately address the issue at hand.

Whats the reason Christians keep 9 out of 10 Commandments, is the argument. Now so far we have established that -Bible prophecy warns about the change of the Sabbath- and tells you who would do it- the papacy also takes full responsibility for it. That is the issue - if most Christians knew this- they wouldn't keep Sunday Holy- they wouldn't do contrary to the will of Christ- that would put them in position to be "Anti -Christ" wouldn't it?

Did you believe in Santa clause as a child?

 

[d.n.irvin]

But it was the Jews who created, interpreted, and propagated the story. Therefore, the story is written under the POV and assumptions of the Jews.

And? Thats your opinion. The Bible states otherwise.

 

[rstrats]

sandy whitelinger,

re: "... why was no one put to death for working on Saturday before Mt. Sinai?"


I’m not saying there isn’t, but I’m not aware of any scripture that says that anyone was actually put to death for working on the Sabbath after Mt. Sinai.


OOOPS - Scratch that, I found a verse that says there was.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Romans 14 may be enlightening, especially the parts I've bolded:
I take the meaning of this passage to be "do what you feel is right, but don't condemn those who don't behave as you do, for it may be right for them." Do you agree?

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5

Brother Penguin, when I compare scripture with scripture, I can not agree with the "do what you feel is right" attitude. This quote might better explain my position on your highlighted text

"Who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?" "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth." 1 Corinthians 4:7; Romans 14:4
"Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire." R.V. In the Old Testament the word "fool" is used to designate an apostate, or one who has abandoned himself to wickedness. Jesus says that whoever shall condemn his brother as an apostate or a despiser of God shows that he himself is worthy of the same condemnation.
Christ Himself, when contending with Satan about the body of Moses, "durst not bring against him a railing accusation." Jude 9. Had He done this, He would have placed Himself on Satan's ground, for accusation is the weapon of the evil one. He is called in Scripture, "the accuser of our brethren." Revelation 12:10. Jesus would employ none of Satan's weapons. He met him with the words, "The Lord rebuke thee." Jude 9.
His example is for us. When we are brought in conflict with the enemies of Christ, we should say nothing in a spirit of retaliation or that would bear even the appearance of a railing accusation.He who stands as a mouthpiece for God should not utter words which even the Majesty of heaven would not use when contending with Satan. We are to leave with God the work of judging and condemning.Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing pg 57, 58

BTW: This made me evaluate the Posts, that I have been making in this Forum.

 

[sojourner]

Whats the reason Christians keep 9 out of 10 Commandments, is the argument. Now so far we have established that -Bible prophecy warns about the change of the Sabbath- and tells you who would do it- the papacy also takes full responsibility for it. That is the issue - if most Christians knew this- they wouldn't keep Sunday Holy- they wouldn't do contrary to the will of Christ- that would put them in position to be "Anti -Christ" wouldn't it?

Did you believe in Santa clause as a child?

Actually, we haven't established that "Bible prophecy warns about the change of the Sabbath." You've "established" that in your own head. Responsible Bible exegetes and theologians would disagree with you. So do I.

The Papacy takes responsibility for it, only because the Papacy believes that it stands in succession to apostolic authority. In truth, Sunday worship was being practiced before the Papacy was established, as we know it today. In any case, if "the Papacy" were responsible, then why does Orthodox Christianity, which does not recognize the authority of the Papacy, practice Sunday worship??? Could it be because the Church has always practiced Sunday worship from very, very early on?

Therefore, your "issue" is a non-issue, at best. At worst, its a travesty of Christian doctrine.

Most Christians don't know it, because it is not true.

My question for you remains: There are more than just the Decalogue constituting the religious Law of Judaism, as recorded in the Bible. Do you keep all of them?

For some reason, you remain taciturn. Why is that?:sarcastic

 

[sojourner]

But it was the Jews who created, interpreted, and propagated the story. Therefore, the story is written under the POV and assumptions of the Jews.

And? Thats your opinion. The Bible states otherwise.

It's not my "opinion." It's the truth! I'd ask you where the Bible states that, just for grins, but you'd just pull something out of context and twist it, as usual, and I don't want to subject myself to more of your labyrinthinian postulations. Fact is, the Bible doesn't "state otherwise."

I could just as easily say that the reason why the Bible says we should worship on Saturday is to relieve us of the guilt of skipping church to go to the football game...

 

[d.n.irvin]

It's not my "opinion." It's the truth! I'd ask you where the Bible states that, just for grins, but you'd just pull something out of context and twist it, as usual, and I don't want to subject myself to more of your labyrinthinian postulations. Fact is, the Bible doesn't "state otherwise."

I could just as easily say that the reason why the Bible says we should worship on Saturday is to relieve us of the guilt of skipping church to go to the football game...

Scripture speaks for itself

The Battle is Over Worship!
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16

After all the posts you have made, you still have not presented any Biblical or non-Biblical information to prove any of your points regarding the 10 Commandments.

 

[d.n.irvin]

[FONT=&quot]
But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God[/FONT]

"Human minds vary. The minds of different education and thought receive different impressions of the same words, and it is difficult for one mind to give to one of a different temperament, education, and habits of thought by language exactly the same idea as that which is clear and distinct in his own mind. Yet to honest men, right-minded men, he can be so simple and plain as to convey his meaning for all practical purposes. . . .

The writers of the Bible had to express their ideas in human language. It was written by human men. These men were inspired of the Holy Spirit. Because of the imperfections of human understanding of language, or the perversity of the human mind, ingenious in evading truth, many read and understand the Bible to please themselves. It is not that the difficulty is in the Bible.

"The Bible is not given to us in grand superhuman language. Jesus, in order to reach man where he is, took humanity. The Bible must be given in the language of men. Everything that is human is imperfect. Different meanings are expressed by the same word; there is not one word for each distinct idea. The Bible was given for practical purposes. . . .

"The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers."
Ms 24, 1886 (1SM 19-21).

[FONT=&quot]out of the mouth of God[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him

We must trust in Gods word and wait on Him to disprove all doubts, " here is the patience of the saints"
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[d.n.irvin]

Actually, we haven't established that "Bible prophecy warns about the change of the Sabbath." You've "established" that in your own head. Responsible Bible exegetes and theologians would disagree with you. So do I.

Pardon me, the Bible establishes - through Bible Prophecy about the change of the Sabbath. The Bible is simple enough for every man to understand, Bible exegetes and theologians disagreed with Christ in His day. Doesn't mean your right.

The Papacy takes responsibility for it, only because the Papacy believes that it stands in succession to apostolic authority.

The Bible clearly warns against this! Here is exact proof by your own admission

In truth, Sunday worship was being practiced before the Papacy was established,

In truth, Not by early Christians

as we know it today. In any case, if "the Papacy" were responsible, then why does Orthodox Christianity, which does not recognize the authority of the Papacy, practice Sunday worship??? Could it be because the Church has always practiced Sunday worship from very, very early on?

Therefore, your "issue" is a non-issue, at best. At worst, its a travesty of Christian doctrine.

The Battle is Over Worship!
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16

Most Christians don't know it, because it is not true.
What is not true? you mean you don't believe it.

My question for you remains: There are more than just the Decalogue constituting the religious Law of Judaism, as recorded in the Bible.

The Bible only speaks of 10

Do you keep all of them?

With Gods Help

For some reason, you remain taciturn. Why is that?:sarcastic

[FONT=&quot]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]

 

[d.n.irvin]

[FONT=&quot]For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.[/FONT]

 

[d.n.irvin]

Without the "Laws of Science"- what could be possible? They are the standards and principles that we use to govern our physical existence. They are put into place, they are unchanging rules, 1+1=2

Without Gods "Ten Commandment- Spiritual Law " - what could be possible? They are the standards and principles that we use to govern our physical and Spiritual existence. They are put into place, they are unchanging rules, Faith+Love=Righteousness

 

[McBell]

They are put into place, they are unchanging rules, 1+1=2

Yes 1+1=2
But you are conveniently ignoring the fact that 10-8 ALSO equals 2.
As well as 100-98 and 1.5+0.5 and ...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

You will have to ask God why no one was put to death before Sinai, and I assume by "no one" you mean the Israelites. But God certainly reprimanded the people for Sabbath breaking before Sinai. Exodus 16:24-30

You stil failed to prove that observing the sabbath is an eternal commandment neither have you proved that as a commandment it wasn't given exclusively to the Israelites.