Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I agree! NONE of the Ten Commandments are applicable to Christians today. We have but TWO Commandments:
- Love God!
- Love Everyone Else!
-
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Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?
- Thread starter d.n.irvin
- Start date
Scott C.
Just one guy
I don't get what you mean. I know Jesus taught that those two commandments are the greatest and on these "hang all the law". So, if I truly love God and everyone, I won't kill or steal, etc. Doesn't the fact that were commanded to love God and others further accentuate the fact that we must not kill, steal, commit adultery, etc? You're not suggesting God is ok with these things now are you?
GreenKepi
Member
I haven't read all of the replies associated with this thread...(if this has already been addressed - forget it)...but, what about the other 603 Commandments? These or the "10" are not binding to Christians today...Jesus wove them into Christian Principles...that's what Christians need to be concerned about....
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
I agree.
It does not have any bearing on the "debate" (and I use the term debate extremely loosly because all there has been is the SDA stating their opinions as fact and not properly backing said opinion with anything but the opinions of others) because the Bible never links the Seventh DAy to one of the currently used days of the week.
Captain Civic
version 2.0
As Scuba Steve said, the two most important laws are these:
1. Love God with everything you have.
2. Love everyone else with everything you have.
Now if you follow those laws, doesn't it make sense that you wouldn't want to kill them, lie to them, steal from them, be jealous of them, disrespect your parents, start worshipping other idols, etc.?
Jesus says they are the most important because every other law will be fulfilled by following these two commandments. And following them properly, not half-heartedly.
Oh, and the whole Sabbath law;
Matthew 12:1-8
1 At about that time Jesus was walking through some grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, so they began breaking off some heads of grain and eating them. 2 But some Pharisees saw them do it and protested, “Look, your disciples are breaking the law by harvesting grain on the Sabbath.”
3 Jesus said to them, “Haven’t you read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He went into the house of God, and he and his companions broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests are allowed to eat. 5 And haven’t you read in the law of Moses that the priests on duty in the Temple may work on the Sabbath? 6 I tell you, there is one here who is even greater than the Temple! 7 But you would not have condemned my innocent disciples if you knew the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ 8 For the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!”
Emphasis mine. Jesus declares that he is Lord over the Sabbath. No argument there?
Following on, Matt 12:9-14
9 Then Jesus went over to their synagogue, 10 where he noticed a man with a deformed hand. The Pharisees asked Jesus, “Does the law permit a person to work by healing on the Sabbath?” (They were hoping he would say yes, so they could bring charges against him.)
11 And he answered, “If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn’t you work to pull it out? Of course you would. 12 And how much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Yes, the law permits a person to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then he said to the man, “Hold out your hand.” So the man held out his hand, and it was restored, just like the other one! 14 Then the Pharisees called a meeting to plot how to kill Jesus.
Emphasis mine.
Uh oh! Jesus did work on the Sabbath! So, according to the logic of "no work on the Sabbath," did He just break the law?!
Personally, I think Matt 12:11-12 sums it up pretty nicely. God wants us to do good. If we can do good on the Sabbath for someone who needs it, do we ignore it? Of course not! We aren't bound to law, we are bound to grace. If someone needs help, you provide it, a'la;
2. Love everyone else with everything you have.
So if Jesus says that is one of the two most important commandments, then does the Sabbath override that? Jesus claims Himself to be more important than that day. (matt 12:8).
God wants you to show love more than follow rituals. (Matt 12:7)
If you follow God's old law, by all means, be legalistic about the Sabbath. If you follow the new law of Christ given to Him by God, then don't be legalistic about it. Actually, don't be legalistic about anything. That's what grace is for.
Of course, if you follow the ideals of the Sabbath in honour of God, I think that's a very noble sentiment. But don't let it hinder you from loving others.
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
Hi!
Christians are under the New Covenant of grace, not under Law. We did not receive this through the Law, but by Abraham's seed (singular), Jesus Christ. Also, we find 9 of the commandments repeated in the New Testament, but not Sabbath-keeping. Instead we meet on the Lord's Day, Ressurection Sunday.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Cheers!
Christians are under the New Covenant of grace, not under Law. We did not receive this through the Law, but by Abraham's seed (singular), Jesus Christ. Also, we find 9 of the commandments repeated in the New Testament, but not Sabbath-keeping. Instead we meet on the Lord's Day, Ressurection Sunday.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Cheers!
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
And you have fallen into the same trap that the SDA's have clung to.
What scripture can you provide that clearly indicates that Sunday is the day of the resurrection?
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
Hi!
First let me say I am not in a trap, I judge no one on days they keep. The Bible says: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
I, therefore, do not judge one for what days they keep or do not.
Secondly. The first day of the week in the New Testament is referred to as The Lord's Day. It is common knowledge Christ was crucified on Friday and rose Sunday. Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified...In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Cheers!
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
common knowledge yet you present nothing but your word.
Nice try.
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
and God's
rocketman
Out there...
If you are refering to Ex 20:13 it actually says 'You shall not murder", just as today in all civillised societies we have lawful and unlawful killing.
Typically the punishment for theft was to pay back double. There is a command in Lev 19:9,10 which tells farmers to leave food behind for the aliens and the poor, which therefore would not have been stealing to take it.
There are scores of regulations apart from just the famous 10, including the classic 'eye for an eye'. These were all superseded by the new covenant ushered in by Jesus, as others have pointed out.
Excellent post!
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
And unfortunately for you, God forgot to state which of our current days of the week is the seventh day.
Now since I do not figure that your All Knowing Deity is all that likely to "forget", I would surmise that it is not all that important.
But to each their own.
Who cares when the 7th day is! If you have worked for the last 6 days, it is time to take a break! The 7th day should be counted from YOUR last sabbath.
This is just as silly as arguing when a church should have a service. Is 9 A.M. good for you?
Bull Crap! Everyone knows church should start at daylight, (or sunset, or midnight).
Everyone is NEVER going to agree on EVERYTHING.
I don't see the Lord casting us into the lake of fire because we got our calendars mixed up.
This is just as silly as arguing when a church should have a service. Is 9 A.M. good for you?
Bull Crap! Everyone knows church should start at daylight, (or sunset, or midnight).
Everyone is NEVER going to agree on EVERYTHING.
I don't see the Lord casting us into the lake of fire because we got our calendars mixed up.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
I agree.
However, I am not the one making the false statement that the Bible clearly states that the seventh day is Saturday
If it was clear, this discussion would be unnecessary.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
You are now preaching to the choir, my friend.
Scott C.
Just one guy
At the resurrection of Christ the holy day or sabbath day was changed from Saturday to Sunday, the day of the resurrection. This symbolized the fulfillment of the law of Moses and indicated an end to the Mosaic law. Keeping the Sabbath was still important, but not subject to the specifics in Leviticus. The Sabbath predates the Law of Moses, as the Sabbath day of rest came into existence after God created the world. Specific and strict Mosaic law requirements for the Sabbath came into existence at the time of Moses. Those rules were fulfilled by the coming of the Messiah. Today the Sabbath is a celebration and remembrance of the resurrection. Really, every Sunday is an "Easter Sunday" as this is when we remember the resurrection. I believe that God still expects us today to set apart the Sabbath (now Sunday) as a day of rest. Of course we should do good, pull the "ox from the mire", and sometimes we may have to work on this day. But, we should do our best to keep the day holy in remembrance of Jesus, His atonement, and resurrection. In the time of Jesus, some of the Jews were being overly scrupulous in Sabbath observance. Not only did they follow the more strict requirements of the "law", meaning the Mosaic law, but they also added new Sabbath rules above and beyond what was indicated in scripture. Jesus explained that this was wrong and reminded them of the spirit of the Sabbath day and that He is Lord of the Sabbath. So, as with all of the 10 commandments, God expects us to keep the Sabbath Day holy in the spirit of "loving God and loving our fellow man". Nowhere in the New Testament is there indication that the Sabbath should not be kept, any more than there is indication that we can now lie, cheat, or steal. The references to the "law" being fulfilled in Christ, means that the Mosaic law no longer needs to be followed. This law includes hundreds of rules which are now fulfilled and do not need to be followed. Included are the strict dietary restrictions, circumcision, and many, many more rules. However, behavior principles as outlined in the 10 commandments are greater than the Mosiac law. They were around long before Moses and will last forever. When Jesus taught that the greatest commandments are to love God and fellowman, He was teaching that we should not have to be told on every point what we can and can't do. We should be able to figure it out by following those two guiding principles. So, the Sabbath in still in effect today, not as outlined by Mosaic Law, but as outlined by the everlasting law of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Unlike in the the law of Moses where the people were told exactly what they cound and could not do on the Sabbath and exactly what the punishment would be for disobedience, today we are governed by broader principles and council. We're expected to rest from our labors, to dedicate the day in the service of God, and to remember the atonement, which includes the resurrection, of Christ. The individual Christian needs to apply these principles to his own life. For our family this has meant giving up some things on Sunday. We try to give up recreation and sports participation, as this does not seem to be in the spirit of a holy day of remembrance. We tell our kids coaches that they will not be able to practice or play on Sunday. When my kids have taken jobs, they tell the boss up front that they need Sundays off. In one case, the hiring manager told my daughter he could not give her Sundays off so she chose to not accept the position. She found another job where they were willing. In other cases, a person may be required to take a job on Sunday. At times, my work requires me to work Sunday. I do it when necessary, as I feel I'm keeping an obligation to my employer, which also is a religious obligation. Since we have the Lord's guiding principles as outlined by Jesus in the New Testatment and since we are no longer under the more strict Mosaic law, we need to use judgement on a case by case basis on what we will and will not do on the Sabbath. I believe that if we completely disregard the Sabbath and make no effort, because we believe the Sabbath was fulfilled by Christ, we are mistaken.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
And you still have not shown, from SCRIPTURE, anything that even hints that Saturday is the seventh day.
What is so hard to understand about it?
If you cannot show a correlation between the current days of the week and the seventh day, then your argument can be used to 'prove' that ANY day of the week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, is the seventh day the Bible speaks of.
Since your argument can be used to prove any of them the seventh day, your argument is not worth anything.