Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[d.n.irvin]

Reading IS interpretation. You may argue that the interpretation you derive from the work is the correct one, but it is an interpretation. "Interpretation" is just the process of converting text to meaning.

interpretation -1.The act or process of interpreting: elucidation; explication. 2.A result of interpreting.3.An explanation of something that is not immediately obvious.

My friend, the logic or reasoning or understanding that you employ in reference to the term or word "interpretation," is incorrect -as it relates to study of the Bible and Bible Prophecy. Although it is an interpretation it is not "personal"

The fact that you have derived a different meaning than most from the Bible does indicate that you have a "personal interpretation", since at first glance it is markedly different than more common ones.

It could mean that, -Or it could mean I have devoted more time to the study of Scripture -and less time exposing my self to the doctrines of "Men" - My point is this: Most Christian churches base their doctrines(teachings) on Bible texts. Sound Biblical doctrines are developed from an in-depth study of all Scriptures related to a certain topic -- examined within there recorded context

If you want to claim that your personal interpretation is right, well, go for it, but if you don't provide evidence or a rational argument, it likely won't do you much good.

Sound Biblical doctrines are developed from an in-depth study of all Scriptures related to a certain topic -- examined within there recorded context

Yes, it does seem that somewhere in the early Christian Church (and therefore during the time when "Christian" and "Catholic" were virtually synonymous), the day of worship got changed from Saturday to Sunday. No, I don't think the Bible predicts that this would happen.

[I'm not picking on you] But as an example the statement " I don't think the Bible predicts that would happen" is a direct "personal interpretation" of what the Bible says. The phrase indicates,, that - you have read the Bible or portions there of -and gathered some type of a meaning that is indeed personal to you. Now whether or not the meaning gathered was correct in relation to ALL Scripture is questionable

And I think I should point out something: you needed to exercise interpretation to determine that "sheep in many folds" means "believers in many denominations". Without bringing knowledge and judgement to the text, there's no particular reason to think that the passage means what you think, and not just that God literally owns lots of livestock.

Granted,

Since when is being your brother's keeper a rule of Christianity?

Since Cain killed Abel, and made that reply to God. The first two sons of Adam were tested in their loyalty to God -through Worship. Abel was the First victim of "religious persecution" unto death. We need not forget that -Worship -and How we Worship God -has been significant since the Foundations of the world! God proves through Genesis to Revelation that we are indeed our brother's keepers.

I also recall other rules of Christianity that involve refraining from judgement, and allowing your "brothers" to answer to God alone:

"judge not lest ye be judged" right. Again that is your "personal interpretation"and application of what is being said. Anyone that is called by Jesus name -"Christians" are and can be "judged" by that name. Christians are "judged" by the teachings of Christ. The Bible says, To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in the Isaiah 8:20.

Romans 14:4:
Actually the passage that follows the quote above is quite appropriate for this discussion, IMO.
Romans 14:5-6:

Hear again is your personal interpretation gained from just a few texts. In gaining a true understanding of what Paul is saying -we need to first investigate his target audience -the newly formed Christian Community of Rome -which comprised "Christian" Roman Jews and the newly converted Roman Gentiles -who were still engaging in disputes over the "Laws of Moses" "nitpicking" Romans 14 is a chapter that could be summarized as a chapter of Self -Inventory -teaching how we can live with "fellow believers" as members of Christ's body.

It doesn't seem so, frankly. You seem to be reading quite a bit into the text that doesn't seem to actually be there.

I accept your opinion, but as a TRUTH -it needs to be investigated

BTW: Brother Penguin, I saw your post in "Is Bible Prophecy Reliable?" And let me be the first to commend you on your willingness to even discuss Bible Prophecy. Out of all the posts made in three different threads in an attempt to bring attention to Bible Prophecy -You Sir -have been the first to actually entertain a serious discussion of Bible Prophecy. I just wanted you to know that you were worthy - at least in my mind -of commendation.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

As my former teacher once said, "If it really bothers you then don't work on Saturday and worship on Sunday."

 

[d.n.irvin]

As my former teacher once said, "If it really bothers you then don't work on Saturday and worship on Sunday."

But is that what the Bible teaches?

The post you made about "Tyre" in the thread "Is Bible Prophecy Reliable?" has been covered in earlier posts in that thread. The previous thoughts about the Prophecy not coming true have been investigated and there is information that proves to the contrary.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Many Christians think that when God wrote the "Ten Commandments" in stone with His own finger -that this was the first introduction of the Commandments to humanity.

Is this true? If so what Biblical proof do we have of this?

 

[Scott1]

Is this true? If so what Biblical proof do we have of this?

God revealed the decalogue, these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God(Ex 31:18; Deut 5:22)" unlike the other commandments written by Moses. They are pre-eminently the words of God. The Decalogue must first be understood in the context of the Exodus, God's great liberating event at the center of the Old Covenant. Whether formulated as negative commandments, prohibitions, or as positive precepts such as: "Honor your father and mother," the "ten words" point out the conditions of a life freed from the slavery of sin.

"It is by the finger of God that [Jesus] cast out demons." If God's law was written on tablets of stone "by the finger of God," then the "letter from Christ" entrusted to the care of the apostles, is written "with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts."
CCC#2056+2057

 

[d.n.irvin]

God revealed the decalogue, these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God(Ex 31:18; Deut 5:22)" unlike the other commandments written by Moses. They are pre-eminently the words of God. The Decalogue must first be understood in the context of the Exodus, God's great liberating event at the center of the Old Covenant. Whether formulated as negative commandments, prohibitions, or as positive precepts such as: "Honor your father and mother," the "ten words" point out the conditions of a life freed from the slavery of sin.

"It is by the finger of God that [Jesus] cast out demons." If God's law was written on tablets of stone "by the finger of God," then the "letter from Christ" entrusted to the care of the apostles, is written "with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts."
CCC#2056+2057

Many Christians think that Sinai was the first introduction of Gods Commandments to humanity. Remember if there is no commandment in place there is no sin. So lets find proof of all Ten Commandments being in effect before Sinai.

1. The First Commandment is about loyalty --Ex.20:2-3
The Creator of the universe declares He is our God and our Deliverer. He saks us to demonstrate our love for Him by having no other gods. Jacob (who lived long before Moses) proved that he understood this law. He told his people to put away their "foreign gods," and purify and cleanse themselves from sin.(Genesis 35:2-4).

2. The Second Commandment is about is about worship --Ex. 20:4-6
God prohibits the worship of images, of bowing before a carved statue. The previous account of the "foreign gods"begins in Genesis 31:19-34. Rachel Jacobs wife, stole the graven images from the home of her idolatrous father. Genesis 35:2 gives evidence the patriarchs knew idol worship was sinful and made a person unclean in the eyes of the Lord.

3. The Third Commandment is about reverence --Ex.20:7
God instructs us to respect His holy name and not to use His name in vain. In Hebrew vain is"shaw" and has a broad meaning--iniquity, falsehood, vanity, emptiness. Summed up, shaw means disrespect. One instance of the sin of disrespecting the Name of the Lord before Sinai, is when Moses relayed the Gods instructions to release His people from slavery, Pharaoh scoffed at the authority of God's name. He was later destroyed because of the hardness of his heart. (Ex. .5)

4. The Fourth Commandment is about sanctification and relationship --Ex.20:8-11
God instructs His people to "remember" the Sabbath day and set it apart for holy purposes to draw closer to Him. God initiated the Sabbath rest at Creation, blessing and sanctifying the seventh day. (Gen 2:1-3) It's clear He expected continued observance. Well before the Israelites arrived at Mt. Sinai, the Lord ordered preparation for the Sabbath. the people were to gather a double portion of manna on the Six-Day, so they could rest on the Holy Seventh-Day (Ex. 16:22-26). Some did not heed the instructions and God was displeased---
" Now it happened that some of the people went out on the Seventh-Day to gather, but they found none. And if the LORD said to Moses, How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore he gives you on the sixth day bread for two days..."'(Ex. 16:27-29)

5. The Fifth Commandment is about respect for parental authority --Ex. 20:12
God instructs us to show love for our parents by honoring them. Genesis 37:28- 35 and 50:15-17 demonstrates this commandment was also known before Mt. Sinai. These two Bible passages give the account of Joseph and his brothers. It brings light to the sin of disrespecting our parents through dishonesty.

6. The Sixth Commandment is about of the respect for human life--Ex. 20:13
God instructs us to demonstrate love, not hatred, towards others by not committing murder. The Bible records Cain's a guilt of murdering his brother, Abel. God punished Cain for breaking this commandment. This law was obviously in force.(Genesis 4:8-13)

7. The Seventh Commandment is about purity in relationships Ex. 20:14
God asks us to demonstrate our love by not committing adultery. Long before Moses' birth, the Bible identifies adultery and sinful in the accounts of Pharaoh asking Abraham's wife into his house(Genesis 12:10- 20. The best example to prove God's commandment of adultery was known before Mt. Sinai is the account of Joseph, who refuse to have an affair with Potiphar's wife saying, in Genesis 39:9 "You are his wife. How then can I do this great wickedness, and this sin against God? "

8. The Eighth Commandment is about honesty--Ex.20:15
God instructs as not to steal. Joseph's reunion with his shifty Brothers, records that He chose ultimate test before he revealed his identity to them. He planted a cup in the sack of his youngest brother, Benjamin to make it appear as if it had been stolen. His test was to see what kind of men the brothers had become. Their horrified response showed that they associated stealing with sin--- in their mind deserving of death.

9. The Ninth Commandment is about truthfulness--Ex.20:16
The Lord instructs us not to lie or deceive others. Christ proclaimed Satan as" father of lies."The first recorded lie on planet earth is recorded in Genesis 3:4 when Satan contradicted God's word, and told Eve " you will not surely die." The story of Jacob and Esau, demonstrates that lying an deceit were known to be evil. Genesis 27

10. The Tenth Commandment is about contentment--Ex. 20:17
God instructs us not to covet--because he knows it can entrap us in even greater sin. There are many examples of this in early history but I do think one of the more striking accounts is the consequences Eve suffered. she coveted being as wise as God (the forbidden fruit) and fell into greater sin. Her coveting contributed to her expulsion from the Garden of Eden! and later on, her son Cain copied her And if they to the murdering of his brother Abel. Genesis 4:3-5

 

[sojourner]

Do you understand that the Bible was written after the event described, and that the authors almost certainly redacted the stories to reflect current thinking at the time of writing?

 

[Scuba Pete]

This one strains out gnats only to swallow camels. I have seen no greater legalism in all of Israel.

 

[d.n.irvin]

To worship God on Sunday is a commandment and doctrine of man. According to the Bible, the seventh day (Sabbath) is the Sabbath of God.

Human beings have the right to believe in whatever they want. Just don't go around promoting or claiming things that are unbiblical, in Jesus name, is my point.

Be true enough to yourself to say," The seventh day is the Sabbath of God, and the fourth commandment has not been changed. But for my own reasons I choose to worship on Sunday."

Now that is a fair statement to make. Unlike the statements and claims that I have been presented with in this forum.

 

[Scott1]

So lets find proof of all Ten Commandments being in effect before Sinai.

Why do you quote my post then IGNORE what I posted.... I'm growing quite tired of the constant spam.... if all you want to do is preach, copy your SDA pamplet onto a thread and MOVE ON!

If you'd actually take the time to interact with other posters instead of just preaching to us, you'd actually come to understand that I believe all ten commandments were in effect before Sinai... they have been in effect since man was created.... but I'm sure you'll just ignore this and spew some other SDA pamplet quote.:sleep:

 

[sojourner]

Be true enough to yourself to say," The seventh day is the Sabbath of God, and the fourth commandment has not been changed. But for my own reasons I choose to worship on Sunday."

I believe that's exactly what we've been saying all along. No one here claims that the commandments have been "changed." What we do assert is that the Church, as the Body of Christ, has the authority to determine in what way the commandments are to be applied for the good of the Body.

 

[McBell]

To worship God on Sunday is a commandment and doctrine of man. According to the Bible, the seventh day (Sabbath) is the Sabbath of God.

This is NOTHING more than your OPINION.
Especially since you have as yet to show which of our current days, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, is the same as the "Seventh" day mentioned in the Bible.

Human beings have the right to believe in whatever they want. Just don't go around promoting or claiming things that are unbiblical, in Jesus name, is my point.

I really wish you would follow the advice you are presenting here.
Your claims that Saturday is the Sabbath is no more Biblical (or un-Biblical) as Sunday being the Sabbath.

Be true enough to yourself to say," The seventh day is the Sabbath of God, and the fourth commandment has not been changed. But for my own reasons I choose to worship on Sunday."

LOL
You just won't quit, will you?
Yet the fact STILL remains that you have as yet to show which of our current days, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, is the same as the "Seventh" day mentioned in the Bible.

Now that is a fair statement to make. Unlike the statements and claims that I have been presented with in this forum.

Cry me a river.
Your self martyrdom has gotten rather boring.
Would you please find a new tune?

Or at the very least show what your are saying (that the Bible specifically states that Saturday is the Sabbath) is actually supported by the Bible and is not merely one of those "doctrines of man" you have been 'Preaching' against.
But since you cannot even do that... ...

 

[d.n.irvin]

I believe that's exactly what we've been saying all along. No one here claims that the commandments have been "changed." What we do assert is that the Church, as the Body of Christ, has the authority to determine in what way the commandments are to be applied for the good of the Body.

And to subscribe to that type of thinking, is prophesied as being " the commandment and doctrine of men," of which Christ says, "in vain do they worship me."
​

 

[McBell]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
2 Timothy 2:7,14,15,16,23,
​

And here you merely further my point.

 

[d.n.irvin]

And here you merely further my point.

My point is, you have no point.
Until you submit proof Saturday is not the seventh day of the week you have no point.
THE CHART OF THE WEEK
***MS WORD DOCUMENT
The thing that gets me is, everyone who makes posts has the internet, so how do you submit posts without doing your "homework first."
I'm still trying to figure out what reasoning you are using to arrive at the conclusion "nobody can really knows what day it is"
"The writings of historians, the records of chronographers, the languages of earth, the calendars of time, and the existence of the Jewish race—all testify to the fact that the weekly cycle on our calendars today is the same as in earlier centuries—going back to the time of Christ, to Moses, and beyond. "

"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley, The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].

"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages, without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.

"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth. They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."—Dr. Lyman Coleman.

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.

"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
2 Timothy 2:7,14,15,16,23,​

But despite all the empirical evidence you still don't believe, which brings me to my next point.


At the end of the day that's all it comes down to, what you believe and why you believe it. And that goes for everyone I not singling you out.


Some people believe Sunday is the day God sanctioned for worship, even though Bible says Saturday is the day God sanctioned for worship.


Regardless of evidence people believe whatever they want.​

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Sorry if this has been covered already, but God has a different covenant with Christians than He did with the Jews. You are right that God does not change, but Jesus made it clear that the old Jewish laws are not necessarily for the Christian.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Sorry if this has been covered already, but God has a different covenant with Christians than He did with the Jews. You are right that God does not change, but Jesus made it clear that the old Jewish laws are not necessarily for the Christian.

Greetings to you
Does the New Covenant negate the fourth Commandment? If it does, how so?

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Greetings to you
Does the New Covenant negate the fourth Commandment? If it does, how so?

I don't think it negates it. I believe keeping the Sabbath is something we should do, however, I agree many Christians ignore it. Jesus made it clear that loving our neighbors as our self was a more important directive, and that He ignored the Sabbath to perform His works.

In the end faith is more important than legalism. Paul was very clear in Romans that these controversies should not be used to divide or disrupt the Body of the Church.

 

[d.n.irvin]

I don't think it negates it. I believe keeping the Sabbath is something we should do, however, I agree many Christians ignore it. Jesus made it clear that loving our neighbors as our self was a more important directive, and that He ignored the Sabbath to perform His works.

In the end faith is more important than legalism. Paul was very clear in Romans that these controversies should not be used to divide or disrupt the Body of the Church.

Why does the term "legalism"only come up when we talk about the fourth Commandment. Paul kept the seventh day Sabbath "let no man deceive you. The discrepancies or "legalism" to which Paul talked about dealt with the "Law of Moses" aka" the handwriting of ordinances"
Not the Ten Commandments
There is a difference between the "two Laws"

 

[d.n.irvin]

Early Christians kept the seventh day Sabbath


The Law of God vs The Law of Moses


Who Changed the Sabbath?