Massimo2002
Active Member
And is this movement a threat to anyone ? And is the incel movement going anywhere ?
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Why does the Online Incel Movement Exist ?
- Thread starter Massimo2002
- Start date
I know next to nothing about it
But based on what I do know I don't want to know any more
In my view there are many who want to profit from and weaponize hurt men in the guise of helping them.
I found it interesting to learn that the person who coined the term Incel was a Queer woman looking for support, but became associated later with communities of white heterosexual men on imageboards or other communities with imageboard culture.
I found it interesting to learn that the person who coined the term Incel was a Queer woman looking for support, but became associated later with communities of white heterosexual men on imageboards or other communities with imageboard culture.
By way of disclosure, I am not an incel - but if I were born a few decades later, I might well have ended up as one. So I have more pity than disdain.
It exists, like all large(-ish) groups, for many different, partly contradictory reason, so take this with a grain of salt... anyway, here's my take:
A lot of young men feel disenfranchised. In part, this is a (partly justified, maybe) reaction to feminism, but also to the current economic issues, and the general feeling of dissolution that the West seems to suffer from.
(Anti)social media have made our worst come out, and dating apps make dating a mess for many users. A lot of young guys don't get laid, simple as that; in the past, they (well, ahem, *we*, I guess) took it upon ourselves to suffer through this, made it our responsibility to improve ourselves, thought that everyone else was doing great, that we were lone losers and had to somehow deal with it... for better or worse... and most of us eventually found a way out, got married, started a life... but now, with the internet, those people band together when they are at their worst, and form a strong bond among each other. Trouble is, this bond consists only of shared misery, and a shared enemy - so if you manage to get better, you're not praised for your achievement, but instead you are ostracised and seen as a traitor.
In short, it's trauma bonding at its most dysfunctional.
All of this sounds grim, and it is, but we shouldn't forget that incels are a tiny minority, and even among those, only a very small fraction become violent.
I see them as a "sign of the times", and I loathe the tribalism - which is not limited to incels, but seems to cover the globe in so many ways - but I don't see incels as an actual threat to society.
Historically, I find the following two facts quite interesting:
* The term "incel" was coined by a woman (a therapist, I think) not as an insult or derogatory, but to describe people who were suffering
* The movement came about as a counter-reaction to pickup artists with their grandiose and impossible promises
It exists, like all large(-ish) groups, for many different, partly contradictory reason, so take this with a grain of salt... anyway, here's my take:
A lot of young men feel disenfranchised. In part, this is a (partly justified, maybe) reaction to feminism, but also to the current economic issues, and the general feeling of dissolution that the West seems to suffer from.
(Anti)social media have made our worst come out, and dating apps make dating a mess for many users. A lot of young guys don't get laid, simple as that; in the past, they (well, ahem, *we*, I guess) took it upon ourselves to suffer through this, made it our responsibility to improve ourselves, thought that everyone else was doing great, that we were lone losers and had to somehow deal with it... for better or worse... and most of us eventually found a way out, got married, started a life... but now, with the internet, those people band together when they are at their worst, and form a strong bond among each other. Trouble is, this bond consists only of shared misery, and a shared enemy - so if you manage to get better, you're not praised for your achievement, but instead you are ostracised and seen as a traitor.
In short, it's trauma bonding at its most dysfunctional.
All of this sounds grim, and it is, but we shouldn't forget that incels are a tiny minority, and even among those, only a very small fraction become violent.
I see them as a "sign of the times", and I loathe the tribalism - which is not limited to incels, but seems to cover the globe in so many ways - but I don't see incels as an actual threat to society.
Historically, I find the following two facts quite interesting:
* The term "incel" was coined by a woman (a therapist, I think) not as an insult or derogatory, but to describe people who were suffering
* The movement came about as a counter-reaction to pickup artists with their grandiose and impossible promises
I never really could quite understand the basis for the term "involuntary celibate." It seems that the term would imply someone who might have some sort of physical condition which prevents them from having sex, but it seems that's not really how it's used in most contexts.
It appears that the incels of today would have been the so-called "98-pound weaklings" of yesteryear - the bespectacled, bookish intellectuals who are/were extremely unattractive to women (who were only interested in bullies and jocks).
I don't know how much of a threat any kind of movement might be, although I get the impression that there's more than a few young men who may appear kind of shiftless or without any real direction or goals in life. Little to no ambition, depressed, no real positive male role models in their lives, obsessed with sex, and wallowing in their own loneliness.
The trouble is that, whenever there are situations where there are many young men roaming the streets with little money, few prospects, and tons of free time - they'll invariably find ways of occupying themselves - sometimes in violent and anti-social ways. They're usually good fodder for gangs or agitators with mischief on their minds. That may be the potential threat, not because they're incels, but because they're wayward youth with nothing positive going on in their lives. That can always be a recipe for disaster.
I didn't know there was a movement.
I do know that there are people who don't really wish to be celibate. Some of us live in a tough culture with dating, competition and frequently little or no preparation for these. Most people aren't taught how to dance, and they aren't taught protocols for meeting and flirting. Its all just whatever you pick up on the way. Some of us grow up with 6" rules, blinders, not allowed to know anything; and we are told that looks don't matter and that the purpose of life is to prepare for the afterlife. And then suddenly we are 35+ years old. I know lots of people like this, boys and girls. Sometimes the lucky ones have very strong sex drives and guilty consciences; and that is not a good situation. We want people with healthy self images, and we want people who have self control to start families. That's what we want not unstable parents, but we are discouraging some otherwise potential good parents to be completely unprepared for life. Having a large extended family can help, but these days its all about small families. Extended families are broken over long distances; and people grow from childhood without a lot of support. This is not a new phenomenon either.
There have always been times like ours and people like this. I was reading in a book written about marriage published in 1910 that people were kept so ignorant about sex that sometimes married couples didn't know about it. It happens when sex is considered very taboo, and children are not allowed to become adults. This does not mean I support lascivious and careless culture. I'm not saying there should be no rules or that children shouldn't be protected from sexual influences. They should of course, but then they should also be allowed to grow up and shake off childhood and brought into a knowledge of how to date if the culture requires dating. If marriages are arranged then they need to know how to navigate that system as well.
I do know that there are people who don't really wish to be celibate. Some of us live in a tough culture with dating, competition and frequently little or no preparation for these. Most people aren't taught how to dance, and they aren't taught protocols for meeting and flirting. Its all just whatever you pick up on the way. Some of us grow up with 6" rules, blinders, not allowed to know anything; and we are told that looks don't matter and that the purpose of life is to prepare for the afterlife. And then suddenly we are 35+ years old. I know lots of people like this, boys and girls. Sometimes the lucky ones have very strong sex drives and guilty consciences; and that is not a good situation. We want people with healthy self images, and we want people who have self control to start families. That's what we want not unstable parents, but we are discouraging some otherwise potential good parents to be completely unprepared for life. Having a large extended family can help, but these days its all about small families. Extended families are broken over long distances; and people grow from childhood without a lot of support. This is not a new phenomenon either.
There have always been times like ours and people like this. I was reading in a book written about marriage published in 1910 that people were kept so ignorant about sex that sometimes married couples didn't know about it. It happens when sex is considered very taboo, and children are not allowed to become adults. This does not mean I support lascivious and careless culture. I'm not saying there should be no rules or that children shouldn't be protected from sexual influences. They should of course, but then they should also be allowed to grow up and shake off childhood and brought into a knowledge of how to date if the culture requires dating. If marriages are arranged then they need to know how to navigate that system as well.
This does not surprise me, as queers tend in puritanical cultures to be outsiders. This gives them typically a motivation to think outside the box. Particularly in a puritanical culture where their very existence is almost a taboo subject or is a taboo subject, it does not surprise me that one of them would be the first to see a need to take action. I'm not saying they are the only ones who could, but puritanical culture is a human tendency. We can see it in the past with cultures around the world. Puritanical culture has benefits as well as detriments. We tend towards it probably as part of the whole agricultural thing with large populations; but its detriments should be mitigated. Everybody does not fit into the same square, and children do not come from storks.
