Why does it matter if its factual ?

[metis]

The Jewish understanding of the Torah, comes from the Talmud

The Talmud is largely commentary (and other things) using Torah and then Tanakh as its base, and not all commentary found within it agrees with other commentary found within it. This is well understood, especially within orthodox circles, since Talmud is sorta like taking "graduate studies" based on the "undergrad studies" (base) of Torah, but the "graduate studies" involve interpretations and explanations that are variable at times.

So, the heart of it all is Torah, pure & simple.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Talmud is largely commentary (and other things) using Torah and then Tanakh as its base, and not all commentary found within it agrees with other commentary found within it. This is well understood, especially within orthodox circles, since Talmud is sorta like taking "graduate studies" based on the "undergrad studies" (base) of Torah, but the "graduate studies" involve interpretations and explanations that are variable at times.

So, the heart of it all is Torah, pure & simple.

The "heart" of the Talmud, is the imaginations of the Pharisees and the scribes. (Genesis 6:5) If it were pure and simple, you would only have one Jewish sect.

King James Bible (Genesis 6:5)
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 

[metis]

The "heart" of the Talmud, is the imaginations of the Pharisees and the scribes. (Genesis 6:5) If it were pure and simple, you would only have one Jewish sect.

I wrote "Torah", not "Talmud".

 

[2ndpillar]

I wrote "Torah", not "Talmud".

And as usual, you misstated the facts. The heart of traditional Jewish study is the "Talmud". The imaginings behind the Talmud, are from the pen of the "scribes", which make a lie of the Law, which is the Torah (Jeremiah 8:8).

Jeremiah 8:7 Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons. The turtledove, the swift, and the thrush observe their time of migration, but My people do not know the requirements of the LORD. 8 How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?’ But in fact, the lying pen of the scribes has produced a deception. 9The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and snared. They have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom do they really have?…

 

[metis]

And as usual, you misstated the facts. The heart of traditional Jewish study is the "Talmud". The imaginings behind the Talmud, are from the pen of the "scribes", which make a lie of the Law, which is the Torah (Jeremiah 8:8).

Most study is done with the Talmud, but the basic core is Torah as the Talmud takes the Torah and expands on it as commentary.

Which book is more important for the Jews, the Torah or the Talmud? How many books do Jews follow? [Dan Galilee, Advanced Torah-studies]

The Torah has literal holiness, but both are important... So the answer to [the] question is that the Torah (Hebrew scripture) summarizes our laws, while it is the function of the Talmud to expand upon the details, and to give us the precedents and Torah-tools for determining new cases in the future. -- https://www.quora.com/Which-book-is...h-or-the-Talmud-How-many-books-do-Jews-follow

 

[2ndpillar]

Most study is done with the Talmud, but the basic core is Torah as the Talmud takes the Torah and expands on it as commentary.

Which book is more important for the Jews, the Torah or the Talmud? How many books do Jews follow? [Dan Galilee, Advanced Torah-studies]

The Torah has literal holiness, but both are important... So the answer to [the] question is that the Torah (Hebrew scripture) summarizes our laws, while it is the function of the Talmud to expand upon the details, and to give us the precedents and Torah-tools for determining new cases in the future. -- https://www.quora.com/Which-book-is...h-or-the-Talmud-How-many-books-do-Jews-follow

According to the Word of God, not "Dan Galilee", the pen of the scribes, the writers of the Talmud, make a lie out of the law, the "Torah". It is like having the "good seed" the "word of the kingdom" (Matthew 13:19), and some Pharisee comes along and plants some tare seeds, a message in which you do not need good fruit, because while tares look like wheat, they have no good fruit. You have a good message made into a lie by a false message. The "good message" remains true, but for the deceived, it is false, such as nailed to a cross. The same applies to the Talmud versus the Torah. The Torah is the Word of God, and the Talmud, is the word of men, which undercuts the Word of God. The "Word of God" wins the battle (Revelation 19:13-15) & (Daniel 2:44-45).

 

[metis]

According to the Word of God, not "Dan Galilee", the pen of the scribes, the writers of the Talmud, make a lie out of the law, the "Torah".

What a dastardly thing to post as you simply are working out of a religious bigotry that's putrid. Plus, you conveniently just blew off what I linked you to, so I'm no longer going to cater to this nonsense of yours.

 

[2ndpillar]

What a dastardly thing to post as you simply are working out of a religious bigotry that's putrid. Plus, you conveniently just blew off what I linked you to, so I'm no longer going to cater to this nonsense of yours.

Do you mind explaining what "dastardly thing", "working out of a religious bigotry" actually means. I bolster my case with the Word of God, and you quote the traditions of men, which in this case was halfway correct, but twisted by yourself into the undermining of the Word of God. Someone has a problem here, and apparently, someone can't take the heat, whereas the coming fire, smoke and brimstone hasn't even arrived. But that is all right, for your apparently self righteous babel, based on your self awareness of being wise and intelligent (Matthew 11:25), remains a target for scrutiny. You might want to look to the testimony of Yeshua for your "fulfillment" (Matthew 5:17) of the Torah, and just dump the Talmud altogether. The judges of the "Talmud" are to be replaced by one who gives righteous judgments.(Isaiah 11:3) As for the Pharisees and the scribes, apparently they will have all "the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth" fall "upon" them (Matthew 23:25-35).

Dan Galilee, Advanced Torah-studies
The Torah has literal holiness, but both are important. One expounds upon the other. Judaism exists through the Torah together with the details provided in the Talmud, which is the Oral Law that was handed down together with the laws of Moses. Otherwise, the verses of the Torah often lack enough detail to be fulfilled as is.

Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him—the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and strength, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD. 3And He will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what His eyes see, and He will not decide by what His ears hear, 4but with righteousness He will judge the poor, and with equity He will decide in favor of the earth’s oppressed. He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth and slay the wicked with the breath of His lips.…

 

[Dell]

Probably? People have been using symbolic stories and teaching with morals and analogies ever since writing existed. Some writing systems even require symbolism to interpret their meanings from the beginning. Must we think people of Plato's time were stupid, for example? Or were they capable of understanding analogies and have normally functioning brains capable of more complex interpretations...

Are you assuming that religions of the past haven't interpreted books like the Bible? If you are, you would be wrong.

Hmm, I'm going to have to learn to write more clearly.. Its obvious to me just by the number of denominations and diverse number of doctrines on same scriptures of the bible suggest a problem of interpretation usually due to over spirituality. Very religious persons in my observation tend to over spitualize symbology and meaning of scriptures especially dealing with prophecy (i.e. The book of Revelations). As far as the accounts in the book of Genesis goes, I don't see how it could have been written any other way than to be taken literal.. the song of Solomon for example, that's different, it's obvious its more expressive and story.. Take the writings of the Egyptians for example also.. the stories of Ra and creation. There may be some tokens in the literature but in a whole sense the stories were not meant to be considered to be fiction and written to express some point..

 

[Muffled]

If Jesus is coming back in bodily form what is his current location?

I believe He is out there somewhere but probaly not on a very populated planet because He has a huge city to build.

 

[Muffled]

If Jesus is coming back in bodily form what is his current location?

I believe it does not even matter if Jesus has remained in the same body for 2,000 years or not since God can simply embody or disembody at will. However I beleive He has been building the city of The New Jerusalem, so that would be most likely taking place on another world. Whether it is still there or in transit only God knows.