Why do YOU have the right to vote on MY rights?

[standing_alone]

Because homosexuals are human.

I second that motion.

 

[Ormiston]

The definition of marriage seems to be inadequate for your present needs. It meets my needs just fine.

The point is it's not adequate for everyones' needs. Thus, "our present needs."

 

[spacemonkey]

You misunderstood me. It was legit. A higher power recognizes the marriage as secularly legal whether it's stated or not.

Why would the "higher power" recognize a marrige that was purely one of convienince and profit that in no way recognizes the "higher power" in return just because it is between a man and women? It seems to me that a loving god, a compassionate one, would be far more inclined to recognize a union between two people who loved and cared for one another, even if they are the same sex.

Bill Maher jokingly suggested a compramise of allowing lesbians to marry because, "...marriage is a chick thing anyway." :biglaugh: Just trying to lighten the mood.

 

[Quiddity]

A solution.

This isn't a need, but a want.

 

[Quiddity]

The point is it's not adequate for everyones' needs. Thus, "our present needs."

Our system of law and how the a society functions as a whole IS NOT in the fulfilling needs business. If it were then pedophiles, rapist, theives, etc. should get their fair share too. (This was not meant as a comparison so please don't use it as such).

 

[nutshell]

Our system of law and how the a society functions as a whole IS NOT in the fulfilling needs business. If it were then pedophiles, rapist, theives, etc. should get their fair share too. (This was not meant as a comparison so please don't use it as such).

Great Great Point, Victor. I'd frubal you, but I'm not allowed at this time. :clap

 

[Jaymes]

That's your opinion. Obviously, Victor and I believe the arguments do hold water.

Quite honestly, I don't really think your opinion matters much in this case. You're not getting married to a gay person (that I know of), you're not being denied rights, you won't be hurt if it is legalized. Why should I be denied 1000+ rights given to heterosexual couples just because a god I don't believe in says so? I don't think incest is a nice thing, but I don't have the ego to think my opinion makes a damn difference one way or another between two people who are in an incestuous relationship.

 

[Ormiston]

Our system of law and how the a society functions as a whole IS NOT in the fulfilling needs business. If it were then pedophiles, rapist, theives, etc. should get their fair share too. (This was not meant as a comparison so please don't use it as such).

I couldn't have said it better myself! This issue doesn't come down to what people can do, it comes down to what they can't. The laws are for protection and setting limits on what people can do. It's never about "allowing" but "denying". So the homosexuals should not have to state why they should be allowed to get married. Those who oppose it have the burden of showing why they can't. And I have not heard a single convincing argument as to why they should NOT be allowed to get married.

 

[Quiddity]

I couldn't have said it better myself! This issue doesn't come down to what people can do, it comes down to what they can't. The laws are for protection and setting limits on what people can do. It's never about "allowing" but "denying". So the homosexuals should not have to state why they should be allowed to get married. Those who oppose it have the burden of showing why they can't. And I have not heard a single convincing argument as to why they should NOT be allowed to get married.

Fair enough. I'm im the middle of putting something together and plan on posting it sometime this week or next week.

 

[Mike182]

No one has yet to answer my original question so let me restate it.

Give me compelling evidence that same sex marrigage is a human right.

why is hetrosexual marraige a human right?

 

[nutshell]

Quite honestly, I don't really think your opinion matters much in this case. You're not getting married to a gay person (that I know of), you're not being denied rights, you won't be hurt if it is legalized. Why should I be denied 1000+ rights given to heterosexual couples just because a god I don't believe in says so? I don't think incest is a nice thing, but I don't have the ego to think my opinion makes a damn difference one way or another between two people who are in an incestuous relationship.

And I could care less about your opinion or ego or anything else.

In the context of this debate, all I care about is marriage.

 

[nutshell]

why is hetrosexual marraige a human right?

Once again, a poster is answering my question with a question.

 

[nutshell]

I second that motion.

Motion denied

*sound of gavel falling*

 

[Ormiston]

Once again, a poster is answering my question with a question.

It's evident.

 

[Mike182]

Once again, a poster is answering my question with a question.

yes i am, but that does not make it invalid *bangs head on wall* ok, let me say this then: gay marriage is as much a right as straight marriage

 

[Pah]

I wonder what qualifies the God of Moses to be worshipped. Didn't we have that golden calf that was traditional?

What says "worship" is a "human right"? Tell me that, nutshell, and you'll have your answer.

The God of Moses pre-dated the golden calf. The God of Moses is Jehovah who was at the beginning. The imply the golden calf came first is rediculous. The Hebrews worshipped Jehovah before they went to Egypt. Once there, they were corrupted by Egypt tradition, and once they left, they eventually returned to thier true God.

Get your facts straight next time and then I might answer your second question.

Who cares about who came first. It was not a "fact" I presented and you assume too much.

NOW - "What says 'worship' is a 'human right'? " Justify YOUR right to worship.

Psst..., You'll find it in the First Amendment. And as a country,we gave you that freedom.

So the Constitution says you have a right to worship. Do you know where it says that we have have rights not enumberated? Is marriage one of those rights, Case law says it is. AND NO WHERE is it restricted to a man and a women. It's makes it neccessary to install an amendment to force the man/women concept. And all based on a phobia or a hatred or a fear or a withholding of Christ's love in your heart. Pick whatever you think is the lessor of those choices because there AIN'T any others that reach that level of importance.

 

[jamaesi]

Once again, a poster is answering my question with a question.

I answered your question without a question.

 

[Pah]

"We" is obviously those who wish to keep marriage sacred - I expect you don't understand what that means since you're hung up on legal issues. The fact that you call it "some stupid title or word" shows your ignorance regarding how "we" view marriage.

Further, I am not insecure at all. I am seeking to protect an institution created and define by God Himself.

Secular mararriage has NEVER been sacred. All marriage today is secular. You are wrong, flat out wrong, to apply that word to a secular institution and perhaps more in error to think that a religious "sacredness" should be in a secular government.

 

[michel]

And I could care less about your opinion or ego or anything else.

In the context of this debate, all I care about is marriage.

Is that your standard Christian outlook, when dealing with others ?

Oh, and BTW, I think Mike's answer to you with a return question was pretty valid. Let us (for pure hypothetical example) take a town where the majority of people were homosexual; do you think they would do all in their power to stop heterosexuals from marrying?

 

[Draka]

It doesn't work at all because society has always defined rules and one of the rules is that you must be a single man and single woman to be married. I know that the rules are not always right. I'm in an interracial marriage that would have been prevented not so long ago. However, what all those marriages have in common is this: They are between one man and one woman. I do not believe in a human right granting marriage to members of the same sex.

Not true. "Society" as defined by Christian influence over government matters has defined that. You also said you submit to the laws of the land. So why is it then that many other countries have recognized homosexual marriage as legal and a human right and not the U.S.? Because as a country we are extrememtly young and ignorant and have much left to learn. We are still led by the backwards ways of the religious right that are unfortunately still in office. Because as long as the stout ones as you run to the polls to keep them in office, and we can't seem to get through to you that your way of thinking in this modern world in antiquated and no longer reasonably works, we are stuck with living in times of prejudice and stupidity over something that might not even be real. If you are unable to acknowledge that there are humans that are homosexual...that is to say that homosexuals are humans and deservent of the rights that other humans are granted by law, then you must classify them as sub-human. And what gives you the right to do that? Nothing. Your belief that your belief is right? Please. That is no excuse what-so-ever and is the exact reason we have so many blinded by the limits of their own perceptions nowadays.