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Why do many Christian evangelicals endorse Trump?

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I lives in New Zealand, a country far away from the USA and have never visited North America, I’m curious about the mix of religion and politics with an election fast approaching. The current administration headed. by president Donald Trump has strong support from the American Christian evangelical community, though the relationship between politics and religion is a complex one. Issues such as anti-abortion and the support of Israel appear pivotal. However Trump is hardly seen as an embodiment of Christian values and virtues. There are informative online articles that captures both the reasons underlying evangelicals support of Trump as well as the dilemma for some Christians reconciling their faith in Trump with his less attractive qualities.

So why do many Christian evangelicals align themselves with Trump and what are the pitfalls of mixing religion and politics?
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Years ago, TV preachers got into politics. And talked strong politics about how a religious/political leader should have great relations with Israel. Trump took the opportunity to appear on the 700 Club boosting his support before the 2016 election. He then took on the role of fulfilling the wish list of these TV evangelists so they then tell the people watching he's a great person and a friend of God and he and God will crush any enemies.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
@adrian009 - I wanted to drop you a quick note not really related to this thread.

In your Krishna thread, where my posts kind of became word salad, you later stated that the Hindu people you've met are all friendly (which is nice) and anti-Abrahamic Hindu people was more of an RF thing.

While I'm seeing you in a thread I just wanted to quickly suggest some reading material showing it may not be an RF-only thing, for your consideration: Hinduism and other religions - Wikipedia

But to avoid me taking this thread off topic, I will kindly ask others who aren't adrian not to quote this post. I'd PM him but I have shyness issues about PMing people out of the blue.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
So why do many Christian evangelicals align themselves with Trump and what are the pitfalls of mixing religion and politics?

The simple answer, their end, their goal, justify the means. One blinds themselves to all but achieving that goal. Trump exploited all the negative fears of racial equality etc. by giving a voice of acceptance once again and from the highest of authority and is the vehicle through which our Supreme Court, it is hoped, will guaranty it.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I lives in New Zealand, a country far away from the USA and have never visited North America, I’m curious about the mix of religion and politics with an election fast approaching. The current administration headed. by president Donald Trump has strong support from the American Christian evangelical community, though the relationship between politics and religion is a complex one. Issues such as anti-abortion and the support of Israel appear pivotal. However Trump is hardly seen as an embodiment of Christian values and virtues. There are informative online articles that captures both the reasons underlying evangelicals support of Trump as well as the dilemma for some Christians reconciling their faith in Trump with his less attractive qualities.

So why do many Christian evangelicals align themselves with Trump and what are the pitfalls of mixing religion and politics?
Many US Christians oppose Trump because he is friendly with and appoints gays in to his circle. Many others oppose him because in 4 years of government he has done nothing to end all abortions. Many other Republican Christians have formed political groups against Trump and will vote for Biden next month.
But many extreme Christians are aggressively against benefit systems for poor, unemployed, disabled etc.... they think that only charities should support these folks. Hence they love Trump.

imo
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I lives in New Zealand, a country far away from the USA and have never visited North America, I’m curious about the mix of religion and politics with an election fast approaching. The current administration headed. by president Donald Trump has strong support from the American Christian evangelical community, though the relationship between politics and religion is a complex one. Issues such as anti-abortion and the support of Israel appear pivotal. However Trump is hardly seen as an embodiment of Christian values and virtues. There are informative online articles that captures both the reasons underlying evangelicals support of Trump as well as the dilemma for some Christians reconciling their faith in Trump with his less attractive qualities.

So why do many Christian evangelicals align themselves with Trump and what are the pitfalls of mixing religion and politics?
This has a false premise in this sense:

Every person involved in politics has a background... could be religious or could be an atheist. Your background gives the platform on what you believe. So naturally you are mixing your background in your vote.

So one is not necessarily "voting" for the person at the helm. We have a choice and we have to make the best choice with what is available.

Looking beyond Trump, we look at the platforms. Thus, whether Trump is the embodiment of Christianity or not, he will be pro-freedom of religion, pro life, pro Israel, pro Constitution, pro-legal immigration etc.

If the other platform choice is anti-religion, anti-life, semi-anti-Israel, and anti-Constitution, anti-legal immigration - it makes your choice pretty easy.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
But many extreme Christians are aggressively against benefit systems for poor, unemployed, disabled etc.... they think that only charities should support these folks. Hence they love Trump.

With all due respect, I don't think this quite embodies the position Christian have.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
If the other platform choice is anti-religion, anti-life, semi-anti-Israel, and anti-Constitution, anti-legal immigration - it makes your choice pretty easy.

The thing is though, Dem leaders aren't often anti-religious but more trying to accept all religions and not putting Christianity above the others. And they also aren't anti-Constitution, realizing that America is a secularist nation with religious freedom.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The thing is though, Dem leaders aren't often anti-religious but more trying to accept all religions and not putting Christianity above the others. And they also aren't anti-Constitution, realizing that America is a secularist nation with religious freedom.
I think that you are right for the majority of Dems... not sure about the leaders. They do represent the growing position of secularism but it certainly was so for the first 200 years.

As John Adams said "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." He didn't say a "moral and secular people". By that plumb-line, indeed they are anti-constitution.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I lives in New Zealand, a country far away from the USA and have never visited North America, I’m curious about the mix of religion and politics with an election fast approaching. The current administration headed. by president Donald Trump has strong support from the American Christian evangelical community, though the relationship between politics and religion is a complex one. Issues such as anti-abortion and the support of Israel appear pivotal. However Trump is hardly seen as an embodiment of Christian values and virtues. There are informative online articles that captures both the reasons underlying evangelicals support of Trump as well as the dilemma for some Christians reconciling their faith in Trump with his less attractive qualities.

So why do many Christian evangelicals align themselves with Trump and what are the pitfalls of mixing religion and politics?

Why do so many peoplw from New Zealand or Canada have to weigh in on Trump?

He's our president. Mind your own business.

As to the question, they see government as becoming increasingly anti-Christian (you have only to look at the number of churches closed in the last six months for "safety" while ABC stores and abortion clinics remain open to reach this conclusion). As secular politics panders to LGBT agenda and other "justice" the regular person is like, "why am I being told I will be arrested if I'm the 11th person in church?"
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
As John Adams said "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." He didn't say a "moral and secular people". By that plumb-line, indeed they are anti-constitution.

The whole quote is debatable:

"But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in the rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Notice he said moral and religious. That can be:

1. Moral people. And religious people.
2. People who are both moral and religious.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The whole quote is debatable:

"But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in the rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Notice he said moral and religious. That can be:

1. Moral people. And religious people.
2. People who are both moral and religious.

I think it supports my position... note:

"no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion"

"And" is a conjunction and it doesn't say "or" - one "or" the other. You can be religious and not moral. You can be moral and not religious. "or" would be right in that case...

but it says "moral AND religious". A conjunction.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I lives in New Zealand, a country far away from the USA and have never visited North America, I’m curious about the mix of religion and politics with an election fast approaching. The current administration headed. by president Donald Trump has strong support from the American Christian evangelical community, though the relationship between politics and religion is a complex one. Issues such as anti-abortion and the support of Israel appear pivotal. However Trump is hardly seen as an embodiment of Christian values and virtues. There are informative online articles that captures both the reasons underlying evangelicals support of Trump as well as the dilemma for some Christians reconciling their faith in Trump with his less attractive qualities.

So why do many Christian evangelicals align themselves with Trump and what are the pitfalls of mixing religion and politics?
Most people's political beliefs are based on their religious beliefs.


The evangelicals are for trump because he gives them what they want, like rice christians, and they want to catalyze the second coming. They are judases. Betrayers of christ


‘Christianity Will Have Power’
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why do so many peoplw from New Zealand or Canada have to weigh in on Trump?

He's our president. Mind your own business.

As to the question, they see government as becoming increasingly anti-Christian (you have only to look at the number of churches closed in the last six months for "safety" while ABC stores and abortion clinics remain open to reach this conclusion). As secular politics panders to LGBT agenda and other "justice" the regular person is like, "why am I being told I will be arrested if I'm the 11th person in church?"
What is it with you Americans? You think you America is isolated from the rest of the world, that what happens here doesn't affect everyone? Trump is a world figure, a force in the world.
Everything affects everybody, and everybody has a right to weigh in.

Stop it with your christian victimhood, already. Nobody's threatening the christian church. Disagreement isn't an attack. It's the Christians who are trying to impose their values on everyone else. Resistance to this isn't an attack.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Why do so many peoplw from New Zealand or Canada have to weigh in on Trump?

He's our president. Mind your own business.
Your president is our business.

The economic of Canada will sink or swim with the economy of the US. Your country's gun policies feed our illegal gun market. Many of my friends and relatives live in the US, and I'm deeply worried for them right now.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Your president is our business.

The economic of Canada will sink or swim with the economy of the US. Your country's gun policies feed our illegal gun market. Many of my friends and relatives live in the US, and I'm deeply worried for them right now.

It does affect everyone.

Take RF for instance. There are a lot of American members. If something happens to America, that's 50% of the forum down the drain. Not to mention how it will affect each member's personal life.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
This is a topic that greatly unsettles me, almost on a daily basis @adrian

It's galling to witness the spectacle of so many self-confessed Christians lauding a man whose lifestyle and policy decisions evidently conflict in a major way with the character of the Jesus of the gospels. When these same Christians subsequently hail him as their new 'Cyrus the Great' or a latter-day Constantine, well that just about stretches the frontiers of my tolerance levels!

A kind of religious supremacism appears to be at the epicentre of it. These people fear the creeping advance of secularity and long for some great 'defender' of the faith, who will literally legislate their agenda and keep the hegemony of their worldview in place. Apparently, many of these people think Trump is 'that guy'.

Responding to a question about Evangelical churches that recommend their faith to Africans as a way to become rich, Pope Francis once said in an interview:


… We must distinguish carefully between the different groups who are identified as ‘Protestants.’ There are many with whom we can work very well, and who care about serious, open and positive ecumenism. But there are others who only try to proselytize and use a theological vision of prosperity ….

Two important articles in Civiltà Cattolica have been published in this regard. I recommend them to you. They were written by Father Spadaro and the Argentinean Presbyterian pastor, Marcelo Figueroa. The first article spoke of the “ecumenism of hatred.”

"Appealing to the values of fundamentalism, a strange form of surprising ecumenism is developing between Evangelical fundamentalists and Catholic Integralists brought together by the same desire for religious influence in the political sphere.

Some who profess themselves to be Catholic express themselves in ways that until recently were unknown in their tradition and using tones much closer to Evangelicals. Both Evangelical and Catholic Integralists condemn traditional ecumenism and yet promote an ecumenism of conflict that unites them in the nostalgic dream of a theocratic type of state.

However, the most dangerous prospect for this strange ecumenism is attributable to its xenophobic and Islamophobic vision that wants walls and purifying deportations. The word “ecumenism” transforms into a paradox, into an “ecumenism of hate.” Intolerance is a celestial mark of purism. Reductionism is the exegetical methodology. Ultra-literalism is its hermeneutical key."


There are more strictly theological reasons too, particularly a 'dimunition' - or in some cases total denial - of the social dimensions of the New Testament message. I have come across what seems to be a rather prevalent interpretation in contemporary North American Evangelical theology, which seeks to understand "sin" as an exclusively 'personal' issue between an individual believer and God, with no corresponding implications for structures, institutions and the social order. The theology in question thus discounts, entirely, the possibility of there being 'social sin' or that personal sin has inherently social consequences, as the unfortunate corollary of this privatised conception of 'sin'.

Were that an accurate reading of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament, then it would surely render the entire social doctrine of my church 'superfluous' at best and utterly void at worst: along with the roughly 3,600 biblical verses concerned solely with poverty and social injustice, as highlighted in bright orange in the Bible Society's "Poverty and Justice Bible":


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poverty-Ju...BHADB1XJBMT&psc=1&refRID=M67TF9JGJBHADB1XJBMT


To this equation, you could then add in the last ingredient of this theology (so far as I understand it): a Calvinist interpretation (in my opinion misinterpretation) of 'original sin' to mean what John Calvin rather indecorously termed "the total depravity of man" - the notion that human nature is so enslaved to sin by the fall that we are "utterly unable to choose to do good" apart from divine grace; in other words that we are an incurably wicked massa damnata (a corrupt mass subject to condemnation) —both by the constitution of our nature and by eternal divine decree—and doomed to perish in any good which we attempt in the world (indeed we are totally incapable of doing any good at all - of any kind!), unless exempted by special grace (the 'elect', the predestined) which we cannot merit, or by any effort of our own obtain while we remain on earth.

The implication of this concept would seem - if brought to its logical conclusion - to lead to extreme pessimism about humanity's capability for social improvement and development (especially in the reform of human institutions), paired with a fundamental inertia and resignation to the injustices of society, as being just the inevitable consequence of original sin (so why bother trying to changing it? We'll just fail anyway! Its divinely ordained!).

It has occurred to me that certain applications of this "theology" (although possibly not all, I don't know) must be an eminently useful ideological tool in the armoury of those most chiefly responsible for many of the grave injustices we find in 21st century 'free-market' capitalism. Let's call it the "theology of social indifference" for that reason.

Evangelicalism in America wasn't always this way - which is to say, regressive and revaunchist. Far from it:


Social Gospel - Wikipedia


The Social Gospel was a movement in Protestantism that applied Christian ethics to social problems, especially issues of social justice such as economic inequality, poverty, alcoholism, crime, racial tensions, slums, unclean environment, child labor, lack of unionization, poor schools, and the dangers of war. It was most prominent in the early-20th-century United States and Canada.

Another of the defining theologians for the Social Gospel movement was Walter Rauschenbusch, a Baptist pastor of the Second German Baptist Church in “Hell's Kitchen”, New York.[11]

In 1907, he published the book Christianity and the Social Crisis which would influence the actions of several actors of the social gospel. [14] His work may be "the finest distillation of social gospel thought."[15] Rauschenbusch railed against what he regarded as the selfishness of capitalism and promoted instead a form of Christian socialism that supported the creation of labor unions and cooperative economics.[16]


Social Gospel | The Canadian Encyclopedia


The Social Gospel is an attempt to apply Christianity to the collective ills of an industrializing society, and was a major force in Canadian religious, social and political life from the 1890s through the 1930s. It drew its unusual strength from the remarkable expansion of Protestant, especially EVANGELICAL, churches in the latter part of the 19th century. For several decades the prevalent expression of evangelical nationalism, the Social Gospel was equally a secularizing force in its readiness to adopt such contemporary ideas as liberal progressivism, reform Darwinism, biblical criticism and philosophical idealism as vehicles for its message of social salvation.

It developed, however, a distinctive spirituality elevating social involvement to a religious significance expressed in prayers, hymns, poems and novels of "social awakening." Its central belief was that God was at work in social change, creating moral order and social justice. It held an optimistic view of human nature and entertained high prospects for social reform. Leaders reworked such traditional Christian doctrines as sin, atonement, salvation and the Kingdom of God to emphasize a social content relevant to an increasingly collective society. The Social Gospel at large gave birth to the new academic discipline of social ethics and in Canada contributed most of the impetus to the first sociology programs.


For whatever reason, this 'social conscience Christian' ethos was, at somepoint in the mid-20th century, overtaken by a radical religious 'right' ideology focused around fractious culture wars. Social Gospel theology was replaced by a perverse 'Prosperity Gospel'.

See:


The Social Gospel

The emergence of the Religious Right in the 1970s reframed Protestant involvement in social issues from a traditionalist perspective. Most mainline Protestant denominations, however, as well as many lay Catholics, remained committed to social justice


In my judgement, this was likely one of the worst 'paradigm shifts' in American and Christian history. In our time, now, by aligning themselves so closely to Trump - I would say quite plainly thay they have lost their 'soul' as a movement:

"What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet loses or forfeits his very self?" (Luke 9:25)
 
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