why did jesus call judas the betrayer?

[Spirited]

did judas lie?

judas provided the opportunity for your atonement.
if judas didn't point him out, how would atonement be accomplished?

I explained this above. Christ didn't come to die, but his death was still able to be used by God for atonement. If every last one of our sins had been absolved and Christ had succeeded fully then the world wouldn't be so screwed up still.

Clearly he has to come back for a reason, and that reason is that his original mission wasn't fulfilled completely.

 

[waitasec]

I explained this above. Christ didn't come to die, but his death was still able to be used by God for atonement. If every last one of our sins had been absolved and Christ had succeeded fully then the world wouldn't be so screwed up still.

Clearly he has to come back for a reason, and that reason is that his original mission wasn't fulfilled completely.

this makes no sense...
did jesus know he was going to be sacrificed or not? being god, he would know...how can god's original plan not be fulfilled completely...isn't god omniscient?

clearly your god is man made.

 

[gnostic]

I didn't realise you have started a similar thread on Judas, waitasec. :sorry1:

 

[waitasec]

I didn't realise you have started a similar thread on Judas, waitasec. :sorry1:

no worries...

 

[Spirited]

this makes no sense...
did jesus know he was going to be sacrificed or not? being god, he would know...how can god's original plan not be fulfilled completely...isn't god omniscient?

clearly your god is man made.

I don't believe that Christ or any other man is or ever will be God. That's not a universally held belief throughout Christianity. I also don't believe omniscience requires seeing the future, as time is a man-made construct to measure concurrent actions etc... Jesus knew he was going to be sacrificed after a certain point, but before then it was not his goal to have this happen. Why would he have to come back if he had succeeded?

All you have to do to realize that God's plan hasn't been realized is turn on the news.

 

[waitasec]

I don't believe that Christ or any other man is or ever will be God. That's not a universally held belief throughout Christianity. I also don't believe omniscience requires seeing the future, as time is a man-made construct to measure concurrent actions etc... Jesus knew he was going to be sacrificed after a certain point, but before then it was not his goal to have this happen. Why would he have to come back if he had succeeded?

All you have to do to realize that God's plan hasn't been realized is turn on the news.

because god isn't empirically understood

 

[Father Heathen]

If our salvation was dependent on Christ's crucifixion, and Christ's crucifixion was dependent on Judas' betrayal, and Judas is in hell for his betrayal, then what Judas did was not only necessary for our salvation but was indeed a far greater sacrifice than that of Jesus' (an eternity of damnation vs. chillin' on a cross for a few hours).

 

[Neophyte]

If our salvation was dependent on Christ's crucifixion, and Christ's crucifixion was dependent on Judas' betrayal, and Judas is in hell for his betrayal, then what Judas did was not only necessary for our salvation but was indeed a far greater sacrifice than that of Jesus' (an eternity of damnation vs. chillin' on a cross for a few hours).

I must agree with you for the most part, however, I would not refer to a crucifiction as "chillin" in the least. That would be quite a sacrifice as well, but eternal damnation would be a lot worse.

 

[asa120]

wooooh greate question

 

[asa120]

welll we have another story aboute jesus the messenger of god jesus
where jesus raise up to the sky before the crusfiction
and e deciple took his place as e test for the jews if thy will go with the murder od jesus or not
and thy did so the curse of jesus on juda is real and he deserve it