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Featured Why did God send Messenger to convey His message instead of directly coming to speak?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    For those who believe that God sent Prophets and Messengers, the Question is why He did not directly make Himself appear on earth and talk to humanity?
    I suppose those who believe in Prophets and Messengers would be limited to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Zoroatrians, and Bahais. If I missed anyone else, please include.


    If you say, God is invisible or cannot possibly come to earth as a Being, then how do you explain those verses in your Holy Book which explicitly speaks of the Day of Resurrection or the judgement Day, or the Last Day, when the Lord would be on earth?
     
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  2. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    Where does it say the Lord would be on earth?

    Why would he? They wouldn't believe. A man must show example.
     
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  3. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    If you are a Muslim, or want to explain it based on the verses of Quran, Here are some verses of Quran I quote:


    “What can such expect but that God should come down to them overshadowed with clouds”


    "And the earth will shine with the light of its Lord..."


    “He ordereth all things. He maketh His signs clear, that ye may have firm faith in attaining the presence of your Lord.”


    “Let him then who hopeth to attain the presence of his Lord work a righteous work"


    These verses clearly denotes of coming God to the earth. If this is a possibility according to the Book, why then God did not do this from old times, instead of sending Messengers?


    P.s. My time is limited to give you verse and chapter number, but you can easily google them to verify.
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Since god is unknowable and a mystery, it makes sense that one would believe an intermediary between themselves and god. Some religions have ancestral spirits that intervene between the believer and god.
     
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  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    If this happened, the concept of faith would not exist. Anyone who did not believe would be judged insane. There would be 1 religion, and that religion would be determined to be fact.

    So. The simple answer is: God wants us to have faith.

    If God wanted to speak directly to Humanity, then God would speak directly to Humanity. But doing so would be a fundamental change in reality rendering the concept of faith in God null and meaningless.

    disclaimer: all of this is assuming God exists.
     
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  6. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    I don't take any of those to mean God will be *on earth*. I think when we meet God the earth will no longer be. As for the first and the second I don't think of them as concrete, rather just kind of abstact descriptions of God's dislike of evil deeds and guidance to.those who do good.
     
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  7. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    In the Quran it says no man can see God and live.
     
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  8. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    So, what would be bad about that? It would have saved a large amount of suffering and death.

    What's in the least bit good or virtuous about believing something without evidence?
     
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  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    when people go astray he sends serpents, prophets. be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.
     
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  10. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    Err... no, it doesn't. If god is unknowable, how can there possibly be an intermediary, who would have to know something of god?
     
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  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so you do not believe the verses of Quran are to be taken concrete true. But if one accepts Quran as an infallible and authentic word of God, can he say, these verses (which clearly denotes the event happens on earth) are not to be taken concrete?!
     
  12. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    What is the least bit wrong about it?
     
  13. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    And yet it says, God spoke directly to Moses! And this story is described fully in the Torah, that God spoke to Moses directly, and He appeared to Him in the cloud. The verse of Quran clearly repeats same idea, but this time saying God comes to humanity in the clouds!
     
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  14. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    The Quran has both clear verses and less clear ones and it is instructed that if a verse is unclear it should not be "made clear" on possibly false assumptions.

    "He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding." 3:7​
     
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  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Because the go-between would no god so he can act in helping believers understand god.

    Ive not heard of a human go-between. Only a divinity one.
     
  16. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    You mean apart from causing conflict, suffering, and death? It's irrational - which, apart from anything else, is one reason why it tends to cause conflict, suffering, and death,
     
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  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It is easier to understand that the God Most High (El Elyon) is like a CPU, manifesting reality at a quantum level...

    The CPU isn't coming here, yet will be seen at Mahapralaya; where reality is formatted, and reinstalled.

    The Lord of Creation (Yahavah) is an Elohim i.e Divine Being, who is a divine representative from the Source.

    There is a problem in Hebrew comprehension by most of the world, that EL (H410) is God, Eloh (H433) is a Divine Being, and Elohim (H430) is plural for the Divine Council.

    The Source has never interacted with mankind directly, it is always through messengers; as the CPU is processing the whole of reality.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  18. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    This one has an easy answer. Prophets are like good historians and scholars, they study patterns and are like "Hey ummm, God probably wants Israel to secure its borders and stop worshiping foreign gods because Sumeria is likely to take us over if we keep letting them influence us." The prophets may have a direct line to God, or it may have a more down-to-earth reason for their authority. They act as spokesppl for the divine.

    On the other hand, compare a direct contact with God. Say you have a direct vision. "Hmmm, time to head to that ancient psychotherapy clinic (which at that age, probably involved cutting out parts of the brain)." No wonder they were afraid. They were afraid of being seen as crazy in an age where people were barbarians.

    A less direct alternative is if you meet a regular person who tells you something, and then several other people giving you the same message. You might conclude God is speaking through these people. You might try to share your experiences with others.

    But even the less direct one, you have the risk noticed in Plato's Cave. He talks about a person who left the cave and returning even being tried to be killed by those who live chained inside. People wouldn't want to see something outside their common reference.
     
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  19. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    If god is unknowable, then how can a go-between know it?

    Aren't most prophets and messengers supposed to be human? I guess you could argue about Jesus from the Christian perspective, but Mohammed, and the other prophets?
     
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  20. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    That's just a hypothesis. It doesn't make a thing bad.
     
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