Why can't science prove...

[tumbleweed41]

I don't think he had clairvoyant powers, but I think something odd was going on with the guy. Maybe he was just the king of the placebo effect. The story is interesting to me though. I don't think all of it can be so easily dismissed.

For a great mentalist, you should check out The Amazing Randi

 

[Nepenthe]

For a great mentalist, you should check out The Amazing Randi

Randi is great. Max Maven is great as well. Derren Brown, Eugene Burger, Guy Bavli and Banachek are all talented mentalists also.

 

[Sunstone]

Science deals in intersubjectively verifiable facts. If a fact is not intersubjectively verifiable, science doesn't deal with it.

 

[Nepenthe]

A little bit of knowledge can wreak enough havok to throw us back to the dark ages.

Since all neuronal activity is active at 50,000Hz or less it is of low frequency and not capable of conveying much information in real time. Its range would be so short that a detector is generally placed in direct contact with the skin of the scalp to get the tiny microvolt response. Long distance telepathy I don't think so.

Cheers

Exactly. Telepathy has to take into account the inverse square law; the brain is just too weak to emit anything resembling telepathy beyond its cranium.

If telepathy existed and were a physical thing it would be susceptible to empirical studies; if not, it would fall outside of science and become a philosophical issue. If there is some form of electromagnetism emanated from brain to brain why has it not yet been detected? Physicists have detected elementary particles like neutrinos that travel close to the speed of light, they are as close to undetectable as the detectable can get- 50 trillion neutrinos pass through us like a ghost every second yet we know they exist. Yet there's no evidence for some particle or radiation connecting brains to brains?

See Stenger's Physics and Psychics pp 22+.

 

[Venatoris]

We can transmit waves and receive waves with our TV, radio, satelites, etc... and so too can we with thought. It is all forms of energy, so why can't we prove this with science?

Since all neuronal activity is active at 50,000Hz or less it is of low frequency and not capable of conveying much information in real time. Its range would be so short that a detector is generally placed in direct contact with the skin of the scalp to get the tiny microvolt response. Long distance telepathy I don't think so.

The problem with comparing thought to radio waves seems rather apparent to me.
If you want to enjoy a song on the radio you need 4 things:
1.Transmitter: Broadcasts the radio waves over a limited distance.
2.Antenna: receives radio waves.
3.detector: converts the radio wave into an audio signal.
4.transducer: A speaker device that lets us interpret the data.

As far as we know, the human brain does not contain any of these components. With direct contact to the body we can detect changes in brain wave patterns and determine which part of the brain is being used for certain things but we can't detect a signal that contains a specific thought. We may be able to achieve telepathy through technology in the future but not without some kind of surgical procedure to implant devices that perform these functions.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Lots of great info everyone, big applause to all!

So then, it seems at this current time it falls into the category of spiritual things, in which spirits communicate with other spirits. Thus, bye bye science.

Thanks again!

 

[whereismynotecard]

Telepathy or collective consciousness?

I do not believe it is something exclusively divine, but is innate in the brain, either under developed or a repressed ability from our past.

We can transmit waves and receive waves with our TV, radio, satelites, etc... and so too can we with thought. It is all forms of energy, so why can't we prove this with science?

Because telepathy doesn't exist. Science cannot prove stuff that isn't real...

 

[Autodidact]

Telepathy or collective consciousness?

I do not believe it is something exclusively divine, but is innate in the brain, either under developed or a repressed ability from our past.

We can transmit waves and receive waves with our TV, radio, satelites, etc... and so too can we with thought. It is all forms of energy, so why can't we prove this with science?

Well, first of all science doesn't prove things; it is all about evidence.
Experiments looking for evidence of telepathy have had negative results. What do you conclude from this?

 

[dogsgod]

Because telepathy doesn't exist. Science cannot prove stuff that isn't real...

Science can reveal what might be at work, how people can be fooled by their own perceptions.

 

[imaginaryme]

Science has looked into both. There was a moment when it was believed that omega wave patterns in the brain may be linked to psy activity, but it petered out. And while collective consciousness might not get much study, its dark side, mob mentality, surely has attracted research. As it has been mentioned, science looks for evidence; but one of the main features since Boyle in the scientific process is repeatability. This has long been the failure point of psychic research - the results from one experiment have never quite coincided with another. Yet this is not to conclude that science is avoiding the issue, just mainstream science. Science is ultimately what scientists are doing, and I'm sure that there are individuals looking into such questions, yet keeping a low profile due to the level of skepticism involved.

 

[TheGodless1]

Well for all involved in this discussion, Biofeedback is quite real and is a form of psychic research. While it does contain aspects of "centering" oneself, it does also contain the aspect of psychic "abilities", to control the body's state of being. Bullets have been dislodged, heartrates stabilized, tec. Also, there is new technology that allows patients with extreme paralysis, much like a catatonic state, to move a mouse cursor when connected to the alpha and beta wave patterns in the brain. Not completely sure how this works as I'm no M.D. but the tech is there. Also, new video games are soon to arrive which will be controled by thought as well by using this very same technology. Remember, Military gets the first crack at tech, then medical, then brought to the public. Look at touch screen technology, first in military use, then we saw it in films such as " The minority Report", and now we have it in our home, albeit at an inflated price at the moment. So don't be so quick to dismiss things simply because we don't know about them.

 

[richardlowellt]

Telepathy or collective consciousness?

I do not believe it is something exclusively divine, but is innate in the brain, either under developed or a repressed ability from our past.

We can transmit waves and receive waves with our TV, radio, satelites, etc... and so too can we with thought. It is all forms of energy, so why can't we prove this with science?

There have been hundreds of scientific test dealing with telepathy, it has been examined tested and retested, no results have ever been scientifically found to support telepathy. I can't remember who, but someone has posted a million dollar reward for anyone that can verify scientifically evidence for telepathy, no takes yet.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Well for all involved in this discussion, Biofeedback is quite real and is a form of psychic research. While it does contain aspects of "centering" oneself, it does also contain the aspect of psychic "abilities", to control the body's state of being. Bullets have been dislodged, heartrates stabilized, tec. Also, there is new technology that allows patients with extreme paralysis, much like a catatonic state, to move a mouse cursor when connected to the alpha and beta wave patterns in the brain. Not completely sure how this works as I'm no M.D. but the tech is there. Also, new video games are soon to arrive which will be controled by thought as well by using this very same technology.

I would like to see information backing these claims. As all the information I have found on Biofeedback has either been thoroughly debunked, or has not been submitted for any actual peer review.
The most current technology for controlling artificial limbs relies on muscle movement in the remainder of the limb being translated into movement on the artificial limb. (Example)
Now imagine if your "video game" was true. The artificial limb industry, including the Prostheses Lab for the US Army, would be all over this. Prostheses that could be controlled by biofeedback.
We would see cover articles in Science, not to mention other peer reviewed periodicals.
As it is, the National Institute on Health puts Biofeedback in the same classification as Distance Healing, Prayer, Meditation, Guided Imagery, Hypnosis and Deep Breathing Exercises. These are 'Mind/Body' techniques that may or may not contribute to a patients well being. More often than not simply contributing to the patients 'feeling better', although the physical symptoms remain.

 

[Nepenthe]

There have been hundreds of scientific test dealing with telepathy, it has been examined tested and retested, no results have ever been scientifically found to support telepathy. I can't remember who, but someone has posted a million dollar reward for anyone that can verify scientifically evidence for telepathy, no takes yet.

You're probably thinking of James Randi's million dollar challenge which was originally going to stop in March of next year but is being continued indefinitely.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php...n-dollar-challenge-update-its-not-ending.html

 

[imaginaryme]

Ease up there, Tumbleweed. I remembered hearing about such tech when Firefox was a movie jet, not a web browser. I also remembered that the military was involved in looking into it, with positive results. So I googled "thought controlled devices." Here's the first one:Neural input devices could bring thought control to hardware there's plenty more. Get yer debunker out.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Ease up there, Tumbleweed. I remembered hearing about such tech when Firefox was a movie jet, not a web browser. I also remembered that the military was involved in looking into it, with positive results. So I googled "thought controlled devices." Here's the first one:Neural input devices could bring thought control to hardware there's plenty more. Get yer debunker out.

Biofeedback and Neural Input are two different things.

 

[Venatoris]

Ease up there, Tumbleweed. I remembered hearing about such tech when Firefox was a movie jet, not a web browser. I also remembered that the military was involved in looking into it, with positive results. So I googled "thought controlled devices." Here's the first one:Neural input devices could bring thought control to hardware there's plenty more. Get yer debunker out.

YouTube - CES 2009: Mindflex = Tabletop Telekinesis
I have actually tried this thing and it does work to a certain degree. It is damn near impossible to control with any accuracy and might actually lead you to murder someone out of frustration.:banghead3

I think there is a star wars version of this toy as well.:sw:

 

[richardlowellt]

You're probably thinking of James Randi's million dollar challenge which was originally going to stop in March of next year but is being continued indefinitely.
Million Dollar Challenge Update: It's not ending!

Yes that who is was, thanks for the info, and being continued indefinitely must mean he's not very worried about any kind of evidence being presented.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yes that who is was, thanks for the info, and being continued indefinitely must mean he's not very worried about any kind of evidence being presented.

And unlike Hamm and others, his 'reward' money is actually in an account waiting to be claimed.

 

[imaginaryme]

YouTube - CES 2009: Mindflex = Tabletop Telekinesis
I have actually tried this thing and it does work to a certain degree. It is damn near impossible to control with any accuracy and might actually lead you to murder someone out of frustration.:banghead3

I think there is a star wars version of this toy as well.:sw:

I went to the Emotiv website and it seems that there's still more bugs than programming, but it's a definite start.