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Why can't I go to heaven?

look3467

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I thought God was omnipotent and that there was nothing he couldn't do.>>>Ghost of a Rider
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I do not limit the creator to any of my reasoning's, but rather agree with His intents and purposes relating to our relationship with Him.

Your reasoning is to limit God or box Him into something that you yourself can not understand, testing your limits of spiritual understanding.

By saying he couldn't save his creation without condemning it first with strict laws we have no hope of abiding by, you're saying there's at least one thing he can't do.
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No, I'm saying that in order for us to have god like qualities, basically being able to reason between two opposites, Good and evil, the only possible way to do that was by separation and then inclusion.

It has to do with the only one God and not many.

In implementing the Ten Commandments, the separation is sealed accomplishing four things; 1. Seal the separation of all humanity via death by condemnation and 2. Give us a moral compass to abide by. 3. Allows God to be the sole liberator/Savior 4. Draws all mankind unto Himself via His Son by grace.

All done as part of the creation process of which none of it is out of His control as you presumed. Omnipotence is omnipotence. If he's omnipotent then he can save his creation any way he wants to. If he can't, he's not omnipotent.

Again, a lack of spiritual understanding.

You tell me that the ten commandments have an inherent moral purpose but instead of telling me what that purpose is, you simply tell me that violating them puts us out of favor. That's not a moral purpose. For example, murder is wrong and immoral: Why? God must have had a reason for deeming murder as immoral. What was it?
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Explained above in the four things or purposes of the Ten Commandments.

Murder is just one of the ten. Even if you never committed a murder you still have 9 more commandments to contend with, let alone the thoughts of your mind against any of the Ten would still condemn you.

So it comes down to God's love of His creation that when He decided to create us, He also included in it our salvation.

Do you still see limits there?

Blessings, AJ
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
godlikemadman said:
The title sounds dumb I know, but hear me out.

For the sake of argument, let's just say that god does in fact exist. Being an atheist, I would therefore be condemned to suffer an eternity of torment in hell. But...

Why? I am a good person. I'm not a criminal and I've never done drugs. On any normal day, I will go out of my way to help someone if they ask. Sometimes they don't even need to; I'll just offer my help. So if god is just sitting up there watching all this, why would he send me to hell? Because I don't believe? It was him after all who gave me the ability to not believe. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't, because I find the idea of an omnipotent creator absurd and illogical. If he truly did love me, as the bible says he claims to do, then surely he would be able to overlook the transgression of a difference of opinion when I am an overall good person.
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It is not about "good".

It is about "belief" and "sin".

Since you don't believe, you've sinned. And one of the 10 commandments, is not to worship other gods but Him. But since you're atheist and don't worship, you've already been blackballed.

Belief in a god doesn't mean "good" or that you're "good person".

That's the logic of Christian teaching. You can steal, rape or murder, but as long you believe in Christ, you're saved.

So the question is - "Why would you want to share your afterlife in heaven with robbers, rapists and murderers?"
 
I

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
There are different philosophies on salvation; few Christian denominations belief faith alone is sufficient, though many feel faith combined with remorse is, still others require good works - salvation through faith AND deed. The third is the only one I can consider being potentially valid for the supposedly benevolent god they claim to worship, the first proposed an absurdly egotistical god and the second a omnibenevolent being that does not care what people do - given the God concept they promote, neither of the first two work. Still other denominations allow for salvation without faith, but with deed; personally I find that the most intrinsically appealing - but there is nothing to support such a position as being more valid than any of the others.
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
gnostic said:
It is not about "good".

It is about "belief" and "sin".

Since you don't believe, you've sinned. And one of the 10 commandments, is not to worship other gods but Him. But since you're atheist and don't worship, you've already been blackballed.

Belief in a god doesn't mean "good" or that you're "good person".

That's the logic of Christian teaching. You can steal, rape or murder, but as long you believe in Christ, you're saved.

So the question is - "Why would you want to share your afterlife in heaven with robbers, rapists and murderers?"
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Too much assumption on your part.
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

That alone will take care of the 'social' problems you describe.
Or maybe you don't believe in hell?
Or maybe you don't believe in heaven?
Or maybe you don't believe in anything greater than yourself?
Don't believe in God?
 
look3467

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Since you don't believe, you've sinned. And one of the 10 commandments, is not to worship other gods but Him. But since you're atheist and don't worship, you've already been blackballed.
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_

God has concluded all under sin so their is no discrimination.
That goes along with what I have been saying all along.
Either all are lost and all saved or there is no salvation.

What is not understood, in human thinking, is the magnitude love of God.
We tend to limit the creator of all there is to our limited understanding and reasoning.

Understanding of spiritual matters lust be born from God. It has to be an
external source of power to gain insight in understanding.

Blessings, AJ
 
M

miss interpret

Member
fishy said:
Well if you'd told me that before, that there is a third option, I'll take starship pilot and spend eternity exploring the universe, I think that will be enough time. Just so long as I can top myself permanently when I finally become bored with it all. Do I just need to sign the visitors book at the club?
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so whay you are saying is you don't know what God's supposed death sentence is?? that figures.
 
F

fishy

Active Member
miss interpret said:
so whay you are saying is you don't know what God's supposed death sentence is?? that figures.
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Well I do know what's alleged in your holy scriptures, are you claiming ignorance of your holy scriptures? Is this some misbegotten attempt at obfuscation? It's one of the best known stories from your holy scriptures. Do put in some effort and see what you can come up with, before I'm forced to embarrass you in public, please. :)
 
M

miss interpret

Member
fishy said:
Well I do know what's alleged in your holy scriptures, are you claiming ignorance of your holy scriptures? Is this some misbegotten attempt at obfuscation? It's one of the best known stories from your holy scriptures. Do put in some effort and see what you can come up with, before I'm forced to embarrass you in public, please. :)
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lol...I really expected better if you cannot defend your own position then you clearly are not worth the effort.
God does not pronounce any death sentence...lol
 
Ghost of a Rider

Ghost of a Rider

Member
look3467 said:
I do not limit the creator to any of my reasoning's, but rather agree with His intents and purposes relating to our relationship with Him.

Your reasoning is to limit God or box Him into something that you yourself can not understand, testing your limits of spiritual understanding.
Click to expand...

I'm not the one limiting God, you are. As I said, I was always told that there was nothing God couldn't do and for the sake of the discussion, I proceed on that assumption. But you're the one saying he's limited in that he can't save his creation any way he wants.

No, I'm saying that in order for us to have god like qualities, basically being able to reason between two opposites, Good and evil, the only possible way to do that was by separation and then inclusion.

It has to do with the only one God and not many.

In implementing the Ten Commandments, the separation is sealed accomplishing four things; 1. Seal the separation of all humanity via death by condemnation and 2. Give us a moral compass to abide by. 3. Allows God to be the sole liberator/Savior 4. Draws all mankind unto Himself via His Son by grace.

All done as part of the creation process of which none of it is out of His control as you presumed.

Again, a lack of spiritual understanding.
Click to expand...
I never said anything was out of his control. I said that IF he can't save his creation any way he wants, he is not omnipotent.

Explained above in the four things or purposes of the Ten Commandments.

Murder is just one of the ten. Even if you never committed a murder you still have 9 more commandments to contend with, let alone the thoughts of your mind against any of the Ten would still condemn you.

So it comes down to God's love of His creation that when He decided to create us, He also included in it our salvation.

Do you still see limits there?

Blessings, AJ
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I still see that you haven't answered my question and given me a moral purpose for the ten commandments. There had to be a reason why God deemed murder and lying as immoral and included them in the ten commandments but did not include, say, nose picking. What was it?
 
look3467

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
fishy said:
Doesn't this make belief redundant?
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No. What it means is that God initiates the work of creation and salvation the part of what mankind can not do.

Now faith delivers or gives entrance into God's salvation while yet alive in the flesh, otherwise, at the end of this life and the start of the other.

That is way to easy for mankind to understand, for mankind has been accustomed to work for God's favor.

You keep asking about the moral purpose is for the Ten Commandments.

Let me give you one verse which may explain what you are seeking for: Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

So you ask, why then the law?

Because of the condemnation of mankind requiring salvation.

You see, the nation of Israel was given the law to strictly abide by it, thus becoming slaves to the law, or blinded by the law.

This blindness is what placed Jesus on the cross.

Jesus was bringing grace while the nation of Israel was thinking law.

Now you have the servers of the law make the sacrificial offering for all mankind via the Christ.

If you don't have the slightest bit of faith in God, you'd be hard pressed to understand what I am saying.

Blessings, AJ
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
How about...you can't go to heaven....
because anyone who went before you.....won't let you.
 
F

fishy

Active Member
Thief said:
Ahwwww...you don't like my answer.

And what if you ARE stopped at the gate?
What if no one will let you in?
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I will neither be surprised nor disappointed. If god is portrayed accurately in the holy books, then I'll be more than happy to give existing for eternity with him, a really big miss. Thanks but no thanks. :)
 
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