Why can't I go to heaven?

[loverOfTruth]

Even if we allow that rejecting God is a vain desire, doing good works is not. So the message in the Qur'an (and the Bible) is clear: good works without faith will get you damned or unrewarded. This means that according to these two texts, morality and good works have no inherent purpose in and of themselves, they are just icing on the cake of faith.

Let me make one clarification on the point of a Good deed of a non-believer. I was mostly talking about the consequences in the hereafter as verse I originally quoted states.

Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon Him) disclosed that God rewards according to the intention of each individual. The non-believer expects to be rewarded for his deeds in the present life because he denies or doubts the existence of another life after his death. So God will reward the good deeds of a non-believer in this world with wealth, power, prosperity, health etc. but no share in the hereafter.

 

[waitasec]

Let me make one clarification on the point of a Good deed of a non-believer. I was mostly talking about the consequences in the hereafter as verse I originally quoted states.

Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon Him) disclosed that God rewards according to the intention of each individual. The non-believer expects to be rewarded for his deeds in the present life because he denies or doubts the existence of another life after his death. So God will reward the good deeds of a non-believer in this world with wealth, power, prosperity, health etc. but no share in the hereafter.

a bit of an overstatement just to make yourself feel better for holding onto such meaningless tripe.

 

[loverOfTruth]

a bit of an overstatement just to make yourself feel better for holding onto such meaningless tripe.

You can't have it both ways.

Either you say I believe in hereafter and I want to be rewarded there. Or you say I don't believe in hereafter so just give my rewards in this world. Or you say I don't believe in hereafter and I don't care about rewards in that case all the discussion about 'good deeds being wasted' is futile.

Peace.

 

[waitasec]

You can't have it both ways.

Either you say I believe in hereafter and I want to be rewarded there. Or you say I don't believe in hereafter so just give my rewards in this world. Or you say I don't believe in hereafter and I don't care about rewards in that case all the discussion about 'good deeds being wasted' is futile.

Peace.

funny...seems to me you are having it both ways



your insistence of undermining the here and now is noted.
this dangerous way of thinking gives license suicide bombers and 9/11

who's to say god wasn't speaking to these fools...
fools who have nothing to loose as if the here and now was something of no value...
despicable and disgusting because of the lack of respect and responsibility and the disowning of ones culpability
under the banner of "god told me to"

 

[loverOfTruth]

funny...seems to me you are having it both ways



your insistence of undermining the here and now is noted.
this dangerous way of thinking gives license suicide bombers and 9/11

who's to say god wasn't speaking to these fools...
fools who have nothing to loose as if the here and now was something of no value...
despicable and disgusting because of the lack of respect and responsibility and the disowning of ones culpability
under the banner of "god told me to"

Ignorance and bigotry is very dangerous.

I was just talking about the 'rewards' for any good deeds. And you probably don't know that similarly God talks about forbidding injustice and other bad deeds in this world such as injustice, murder, rape etc.

This is what the Qur'an says:
"... if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. " (Al-Qur'an 5:32)

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that ye do." (Al-Qur'an 5:8)

Now as to the suicide bombers - they are no different than all these killers who are atheists or people of other faiths. Who Kills More, Religion or Atheism?

 

[waitasec]

Ignorance and bigotry is very dangerous.

I was just talking about the 'rewards' for any good deeds. And you probably don't know that similarly God talks about forbidding injustice and other bad deeds in this world such as injustice, murder, rape etc.

avenging on gods behalf seems to be a good deed...
all because the here and now isn't worth a lick...

lame.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't know of many people who give to charity just so they can get a "prize" of some sort. Most people give because they want to help someone who is suffering. Just as long as you guys know that, I have no problem.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Let me make one clarification on the point of a Good deed of a non-believer. I was mostly talking about the consequences in the hereafter as verse I originally quoted states.

Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon Him) disclosed that God rewards according to the intention of each individual. The non-believer expects to be rewarded for his deeds in the present life because he denies or doubts the existence of another life after his death. So God will reward the good deeds of a non-believer in this world with wealth, power, prosperity, health etc. but no share in the hereafter.

I would venture to say that a reward in the afterlife is considered more desirable by believers, correct? So, because the believer receives the better reward,in a sense, the non-believer is still being punished for his lack of faith.

Beyond that, I would have to say that typically, charitable people are not looking for any kind of reward other than the satisfaction of helping others. I'm not charitable by nature but when I do good works, I certainly don't expect to receive wealth, power or prosperity from it.

 

[fishy]

spreading mischief in the land

This is validation for murder? What does it mean, much less how can it justify taking a life?

 

[loverOfTruth]

This is validation for murder? What does it mean, much less how can it justify taking a life?

I thought they just killed a US Citizen, Anwar Awlaki for spreading mischief in the world.

 

[waitasec]

Now as to the suicide bombers - they are no different than all these killers who are atheists or people of other faiths. Who Kills More, Religion or Atheism?

i have some news for you pal...people kill people...
people killing people hiding behind the guise of religion makes the entire act of murder even more ambiguous. was it done becuase of hate or because god told them to

get a freakin clue will ya!!!!

 

[loverOfTruth]

i have some news for you pal...people kill people...
people killing people hiding behind the guise of religion makes the entire act of murder even more ambiguous. was it done becuase of hate or because god told them to

get a freakin clue will ya!!!!

So just because someone kills because God told them to somehow makes them worse than those who kills out of hate ?

Anyway, can you give some evidence that God told them to ?

 

[waitasec]

So just because someone kills because God told them to somehow makes them worse than those who kills out of hate ?

Anyway, can you give some evidence that God told them to ?

Suicide Bombing as Worship: Dimensions of Jihad :: Middle East Quarterly

 

[waitasec]

So just because someone kills because God told them to somehow makes them worse than those who kills out of hate ?

as i think it gives the cowardly a justification...

faith without proof, unfounded faith, and unfounded confidence in faith that requires no proof is giving license to some very very dangerous individuals...
yes? :yes:

who could be wrong with god on their side...?

 

[Thief]

Just a note pulled from Answers.com
(as if the point needs rebuttal)

"The most common motives for murder are:

for financial gain,
unintentional in the commission of another crime,
as the ultimate control of another person,
vengeance or retribution,
result of a mental illness,
jealousy,
hate,
fear,
arrogance or self righteousness,
subservience to another person or entity.

Some murders are a result of a combination of these motivations."


I see the 'religious' causes are to the bottom of the list.
Likely so as most people think of God as good.

In this thread, I see far to much blame aimed at those who believe in God.
If the accusation held water...every believer would be at fault.

I say to the contrary....
Man, without belief in Higher Powers, would feel more at ease in abiding to his own will....dominating all things around him....
including his fellowman.

The few who perpetrate ill will, are responding exactly to that...ill will.

Granted...scripture of several kinds, displays a deity of serious handling.
He has insisted to the extreme, a firm obedience.

Most of that is behind us now....and faith remains.

The title of this thread has been answered repeatedly.
But now perhaps we should reconsider.

If God really does insist on belief.....for entry into heaven....
Then non-believers have no hope.

 

[waitasec]

Just a note pulled from Answers.com
(as if the point needs rebuttal)

"The most common motives for murder are:

for financial gain,
unintentional in the commission of another crime,
as the ultimate control of another person,
vengeance or retribution,
result of a mental illness,
jealousy,
hate,
fear,
arrogance or self righteousness,
subservience to another person or entity.

Some murders are a result of a combination of these motivations."


I see the 'religious' causes are to the bottom of the list.

what i highlighted are justified through unfounded religious faith...
something you want to defend...
why? i have no idea.

 

[Thief]

Just a note pulled from Answers.com
(as if the point needs rebuttal)

"The most common motives for murder are:

for financial gain,
unintentional in the commission of another crime,
as the ultimate control of another person,
vengeance or retribution,
result of a mental illness,
jealousy,
hate,
fear,
arrogance or self righteousness,
subservience to another person or entity.

Some murders are a result of a combination of these motivations."


I see the 'religious' causes are to the bottom of the list.
Likely so as most people think of God as good.

In this thread, I see far to much blame aimed at those who believe in God.
If the accusation held water...every believer would be at fault.

I say to the contrary....
Man, without belief in Higher Powers, would feel more at ease in abiding to his own will....dominating all things around him....
including his fellowman.

The few who perpetrate ill will, are responding exactly to that...ill will.

Granted...scripture of several kinds, displays a deity of serious handling.
He has insisted to the extreme, a firm obedience.

Most of that is behind us now....and faith remains.

The title of this thread has been answered repeatedly.
But now perhaps we should reconsider.

If God really does insist on belief.....for entry into heaven....
Then non-believers have no hope.

A proper defense?....yes...of course.

 

[waitasec]

A proper defense?....yes...of course.

why do you want to defend something so dangerous?

 

[Thief]

why do you want to defend something so dangerous?

Calling religious dangerous...exposes only your own prejudice.

 

[waitasec]

Calling religious dangerous...exposes only your own prejudice.

i'm calling unfounded belief dangerous...

ooops... are you projecting?