Why can nothing be added to the Bible?

[Jeremiah Ames]

What I had read was the Catholic had altered, actually removed one of the ten commandments. The 2nd one about graven images.

The Catholic Church decided the canon, what books went into the Bible. The could change it as they felt appropriate. It's their book.

The Protestants fell out with the catholic church and decided the Bible alone was the Church's authority. At that point it couldn't really be changed or altered by someone and have the same authority.

I don't think the Bible started out as the inerrant Word of God. That's something I suspect Protestant theology evolved it into.

Pope Francis: God Intstructed Me to Rewrite Ten Commandments

I see it the same way.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I think the fault lies in the human heart, not with God or the Bible. Anyone who sincerely reads the Bible finds adequate clarification and instruction on how to treat others and get along. There certainly no support for violent wars. That happens when greedy, power hungry men use religion and/or the Bible for their own political ends and control.

No, I can't agree. I find that in the OT God condones violent wars on a regular basis. In fact, questions about who was 'sincerely' reading the bible ended up causing bloody wars between Catholics and Protastants that raged on for decades. You'd think that with two major groups both of whom claim to be genuine Christians killing one another in the name of God that God would have stepped in to clear matters up for them.

 

[InChrist]

No, I can't agree. I find that in the OT God condones violent wars on a regular basis. In fact, questions about who was 'sincerely' reading the bible ended up causing bloody wars between Catholics and Protastants that raged on for decades. You'd think that with two major groups both of whom claim to be genuine Christians killing one another in the name of God that God would have stepped in to clear matters up for them.

The OT only shows God condoning war...
specifically for Israel.
specifically for a certain period in history.
specifically to remove the inhabitants of the land who immersed in violence and evil and who were given years of warning.
Never does the Bible give a blanket condoning for war to anyone anywhere else during any other time.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The OT only shows God condoning war...
specifically for Israel.
specifically for a certain period in history.
specifically to remove the inhabitants of the land who immersed in violence and evil and who were given years of warning.
Never does the Bible give a blanket condoning for war to anyone anywhere else during any other time.

Clearly that's how YOU interpret it. Unfortunately people have been fighting wars in God's name for centuries, so apparently there are others who have interpreted it differently. Back in the 1500's you had both Catholics and Protestants who felt justified to 'remove the inhabitants of the land who were immersed in violence and evil, who'd been given years of warning'.

I was a teacher for a number of years. And I had occasions where I gave instructiions for an assignment and I came to see that a significant portion of my students aren't following the instructions properly because they had misinterpreted what I'd told them. Now I could have said, too bad for them. I gave instructions that OTHER students understood, so if they get it wrong that's on them. But instead I realized that it was a failure on MY part, because clearly I didn't take the time to make my instructions clear to EVERYONE, and that's my job. Furthermore, if I were to find out that the students in my class were beating up on each other durinf recess because they couldn't agree on what the instruction for my assignment were, then I would DEFINITELY step in to clarrify matters.

You'd think that if a fallible human teacher could figure out that sometimes it's essential to clarrify your instructions that it would be obvious to an all-knowing God. Yet people CONTINUE to fight wars in His name and we don't hear a peep out of God.

 

[InChrist]

Clearly that's how YOU interpret it. Unfortunately people have been fighting wars in God's name for centuries, so apparently there are others who have interpreted it differently. Back in the 1500's you had both Catholics and Protestants who felt justified to 'remove the inhabitants of the land who were immersed in violence and evil, who'd been given years of warning'.

I was a teacher for a number of years. And I had occasions where I gave instructiions for an assignment and I came to see that a significant portion of my students aren't following the instructions properly because they had misinterpreted what I'd told them. Now I could have said, too bad for them. I gave instructions that OTHER students understood, so if they get it wrong that's on them. But instead I realized that it was a failure on MY part, because clearly I didn't take the time to make my instructions clear to EVERYONE, and that's my job. Furthermore, if I were to find out that the students in my class were beating up on each other durinf recess because they couldn't agree on what the instruction for my assignment were, then I would DEFINITELY step in to clarrify matters.

You'd think that if a fallible human teacher could figure out that sometimes it's essential to clarrify your instructions that it would be obvious to an all-knowing God. Yet people CONTINUE to fight wars in His name and we don't hear a peep out of God.

I believe God does indeed clarify His instructions for those who desire and seek clarification, but He doesn't force His instruction on those who are set in doing things their own way.

 

[Truthseeker]

Skeptics are a dime a dozen. Do you think God cares about what they think? If you are going to be granted citizenship in another country, you don't get to dictate your own terms of residency......you conform to the rules already set out in their laws....and if you don't, expect to be deported. If a human government doesn't give a hoot about how you feel about their laws, should God be any different? He is evaluating our record to see if we will become good citizens of the world he is about to introduce to humanity....the one we should have had in the beginning.....so how are we all doing, do you think? How many 'passports' are already stamped "Undesirable"?

Why don't we need further revelations from God? Because all we need is already there in the Bible. I do not believe that men chose the Bible canon.....it is God's word after all to those who accept it, and men have not been permitted to change its message. It is one book, with one author and it is one story beginning in Genesis and taking us a thousand years into the future in Revelation. Why would anyone need more? It tells us what standards are acceptable to our Creator....what conduct pleases him and what will disqualify us from life in the new world to come.

Its all there.....if God doesn't change, why would we expect him to add anything?

Its all there.....if God doesn't change, why would we expect him to add anything?

God doesn't change but mankind evolves. So they need further scriptures. Also Christianity is divided among themselves. Wouldn't it be nice if we could decide on those things that divide us. Also over time religion turns away from the fundamentals of the religion, and clings to the branch instead of the root.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I believe God does indeed clarify His instructions for those who desire and seek clarification, but He doesn't force His instruction on those who are set in doing things their own way.

Really? I'm not aware of God making any official clarrifications for over 2000 years. Is there a New New Testament that I'm not aware of?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

A little skepticism keep us from being gullible.....but too far either way is not useful to anyone.

Here we actually agree.

The Buddha always told his disciples not to waste their time and energy in metaphysical speculation. Whenever he was asked a metaphysical question, he remained silent. Instead, he directed his disciples toward practical efforts. Questioned one day about the problem of the infinity of the world, the Buddha said, "Whether the world is finite or infinite, limited or unlimited, the problem of your liberation remains the same." Another time he said, "Suppose a man is struck by a poisoned arrow and the doctor wishes to take out the arrow immediately. Suppose the man does not want the arrow removed until he knows who shot it, his age, his parents, and why he shot it. What would happen? If he were to wait until all these questions have been answered, the man might die first." Life is so short. It must not be spent in endless metaphysical speculation that does not bring us any closer to the truth- Thich Naht Hanh, Zen Keys

If they are of age, I would be looking for ways to facilitate their departure, where I didn't have to worry about their thinking and behavior affecting anyone else negatively. As adults they can take their issues with them.

What you're saying about god though seems to indicate their behavior that facilitates removal is questioning you about anything. Children are people with their own personality and slightly different genetic makeup than either parents. Of course they're going to question.

You think that strict Muslim countries are going to change their laws for westerners who might want to visit and treat their laws with disrespect? Some have found out the hard way that those laws are not negotiable just because the offenders are not Muslims.

If you're comparing this with Islamic theocracy, that should give you reason to pause.

This is the Creator we are talking about....you think he is stupid?...short sighted?

You think he couldn't be, just because he's creator?

In creating mortal creatures with his own moral attributes, God endowed them with free will.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

Isaiah 6:9-10 He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Romans 9:22-23 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.

Free will? No, according to the Bible- people are foreordained to salvation or condemnation.

Was it therefore a mistake to give humans free will? God meant it as a gift that would enhance their lives immeasurably, countless times a day....but when a rebel spirit suggested that the fruit of the tree they were instructed to abstain from was proof that God was holding back something to which they were entitled....it seemed reasonable to her. It was a lie, but she believed him. When her husband returned, he too was tempted to disobey, but not for the same reason. God now had three, free willed creatures who were rebellious....I believe how he handled it, was nothing short of genius.

The Bible doesn't say people have free will. Again, you can't possibly absolve an all-knowing deity of it's part in the garden episode. Who put the tree there, as the story goes?

If we have all the instruction we need and God's unchanging standards and laws, what more is needed?

You haven't proven that this statement is the same as no further revelation.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I am no Catholic. The history of the Catholic church is filled the persecution and annihilation of Jews, Muslims, many true Bible believers, along with any who did not accept the teachings and authority of the RCC.

Maybe Protestants have a nicer history eh? Want to open some history books and compare?

 

[InChrist]

Maybe Protestants have a nicer history eh? Want to open some history books and compare?

No need to compare...Protestants have a lot of bad history, too.

 

[InChrist]

Really? I'm not aware of God making any official clarrifications for over 2000 years. Is there a New New Testament that I'm not aware of?

No, there is no new NT . God clarifies to personally each person as they read His word and seek clarification.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

specifically to remove the inhabitants of the land who immersed in violence and evil and who were given years of warning.

And no one has EVER gone waaaaaay overboard with military propaganda

What you're saying about god though seems to indicate their behavior that facilitates removal is questioning you about anything. Children are people with their own personality and slightly different genetic makeup than either parents. Of course they're going to question.

I respect my dogs for not always wanting to do what I want them to do. I respect them as individuals with their own personalities. They have a right, in my opinion, to question my actions, since they will reap the benefits or the horrors of my actions.

 

[QuestioningMind]

No, there is no new NT . God clarifies to personally each person as they read His word and seek clarification.

So it's an everyone decides for themselves kind of thing. Guess that's why there are literally thousands of Christain denominations. The Protestsnats thought He clarrified matters in one way and the Cathlolics interpreted that clarrification in another way. I guess everything would be clear, if it just wasn't all so confusing.

 

[Deeje]

What you're saying about god though seems to indicate their behavior that facilitates removal is questioning you about anything.

God will answer any reasonable question. But those who question with an accusing finger, don't deserve an answer. He owes them nothing.

Children are people with their own personality and slightly different genetic makeup than either parents. Of course they're going to question.

I never stopped asking questions when I was a kid. Questions are how we learn.....I questioned everything I was ever taught, by anyone......church, school, my parents.....anyone who had any authority over me. The one person I never felt mistrust for, was God.

When I got an answer from someone that I felt was was dodgy, I kept searching for a better one. I quickly detected when someone was hedging or making excuses, but getting to understand the Bible's narrative, it was soon clear to me that interpretation was the problem, not God. Leaving Christendom was the best move I ever made.

If you're comparing this with Islamic theocracy, that should give you reason to pause.

What I said was...."The analogy works because I believe that God is carefully choosing citizens for life in his kingdom to come. If they have behaviors and attitudes that will clash with the rest of the residents, then he does not want them there. You think that strict Muslim countries are going to change their laws for westerners who might want to visit and treat their laws with disrespect? Some have found out the hard way that those laws are not negotiable just because the offenders are not Muslims."

You deliberately chose to misinterpret what I said......ignorance of the law, whether by choice or not, still make a person accountable. If you know what God's laws are and you break them, the penalty still applies even if you didn't bother to check them. Hence the Muslim reference. The law is the law and it will not bend for you, just because you don't think it applies in your case. Ignorance or defiance ends the same way.

You think he couldn't be, just because he's creator?

I have no reason to doubt that the Creator is perfect. I understand that other faiths do not expect their deities to be perfect, thereby excusing their own failures. Its not much to live up to is it?

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

I think you misinterpreted every one of those scriptures. God's foreknowledge allows him to foresee any period in history if it suits him. You think the introduction of sin producing wicked people is a surprise to him? He allows us to decide to be among those whom he considers wicked or not. (The human interpretation of 'wickedness' may be a little different to God's, however.)

How could prophesy be accurate if God has no knowledge of the future? He does not cause the events but foresees them and warns us about them.

The day he eliminates all sources of wickedness will be a great day indeed!

Isaiah 6:9-10 He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

God said to his prophet Ezekiel concerning Israel....
"But the house of Israel will refuse to listen to you, for they do not want to listen to me. All those of the house of Israel are hardheaded and hardhearted." (Ezekiel 3:7)

It was like talking to a brick wall. Did God cause that rebelliousness and hardheartedness or was he simply stating a foregone conclusion based on what he knew of them from previous experience? He knew where it would take them. This statement was actually a lament.

Romans 9:22-23 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.

Knowing in advance that there would be those who would not serve him, God patiently waits for the right time to act...just like he did in Noah's day. The examples are all there and serve as a warning for us. The triumph of good over evil has always been a theme that appeals to us. Who doesn't fist pump when the bad guy gets his comeuppance? Justice is served.

There are no 'knee jerks' on God's part....just carefully planned counter-maneuvers that will accomplish his purpose in the end. We can choose to be on the right side, or the wrong side of that final judgment day....

Free will? No, according to the Bible- people are foreordained to salvation or condemnation.

There are certain things and events foreordained in the scriptures but only rarely are individuals foreordained for a specific role, like John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. God's will will take place "on earth as it is in heaven". No one can stop it. What we can do is put ourselves in line for salvation by our obedience to God's will. Individuals have choices....that is free will. If we had no options, then why would God give us so much time to make our choices? Why even have a Bible?

While there is life, there is hope.....but I believe that time is fast running out for this present system of things. Read 2 Peter ch 3 and see what the future holds for those who are going to be caught off-guard when that day comes. There is something there for everyone to consider.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

No need to compare...Protestants have a lot of bad history, too.

Was your previous statement such a good reason for not being Catholic then?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

God will answer any reasonable question. But those who question with an accusing finger, don't deserve an answer. He owes them nothing.

Who decides what a reasonable question is?

I have no reason to doubt that the Creator is perfect. I understand that other faiths do not expect their deities to be perfect, thereby excusing their own failures. Its not much to live up to is it?

I am not sure how you possibly got the last two sentences out of the first. How do you make these kinds of conclusions?

I think you misinterpreted every one of those scriptures.

Of course, I must have. It couldn't be that your view of the Bible is incorrect. That couldn't happen...

God said to his prophet Ezekiel concerning Israel....
"But the house of Israel will refuse to listen to you, for they do not want to listen to me. All those of the house of Israel are hardheaded and hardhearted." (Ezekiel 3:7)

It was like talking to a brick wall.

Isaiah 6 says God made them not listen. How is that not God's fault?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

God will answer any reasonable question. But those who question with an accusing finger, don't deserve an answer. He owes them nothing.

What a horrible Person!

God's foreknowledge allows him to foresee any period in history if it suits him. You think the introduction of sin producing wicked people is a surprise to him?

He sure sounded surprised.

How could prophesy be accurate if God has no knowledge of the future?

You believe that God chooses to know something or not. This means prophecy can never be trusted because God is not necessarily looking at the whole picture.

Did God cause that rebelliousness and hardheartedness or was he simply stating a foregone conclusion based on what he knew of them from previous experience?

I dunno. Maybe if God had treated them better, instead of allowing all kinds of horrible things to happen to them, they'd be more enthusiastic? Just a shot in the dark.

The triumph of good over evil has always been a theme that appeals to us. Who doesn't fist pump when the bad guy gets his comeuppance? Justice is served.

The "bad guy" has to be verified to be a "bad guy" first, though, and not just someone the author didn't like.

There are no 'knee jerks' on God's part

"Some people are getting on My nerves ... I'm going to drown everyone and everything, including little kittens, those rotten sinners...."

What we can do is put ourselves in line for salvation by our obedience to God's will.

I would rather stand up for what is right, not what answer will get me out of trouble. People were supposed to turn in Jews during the Holocaust. They could get killed if they didn't. Doesn't make obeying right.

 

[`mud]

I wonder why didn't `god` make the Earth perfect ?
And `god` doesn't repair anything !
Give me a big friggen break !

 

[InChrist]

Was your previous statement such a good reason for not being Catholic then?

I don't know. I don't consider myself to be Protestant, either.

I wonder why didn't `god` make the Earth perfect ?
And `god` doesn't repair anything !
Give me a big friggen break !

God made the earth good.
Humans damaged it with sin.
God offers the remedy for repair.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks for the link and info. The thoughts expressed related to Revelation and Titus are interesting. I'm certainly not going to be adamant about the dating, but I do think overall the earlier dating makes more sense.

If the apostle John were indeed writing in AD 90-95, after the destruction of the temple, do you think it is realistic to assume he would make no mention whatsoever of the most apocalyptic event in Jewish history; the demolition of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple?

Realistic? Sure. Why would a book mainly focused on prophecies about the future necessarily have to talk about a past event? OTOH, I don't think that the events Revelation describes as happening then work well with an earlier dating.

The book/letter of Titus identifies the apostle Paul, who was a contemporary of Titus, as the author of Titus. Paul also mentions Titus in several other of his epistles.

Yes: the later dating of Titus implies that Titus was likely pseudipigraphical.