Why ask for proof and evidence?

[heretic]

I find the notion of personalizing/anthropomorphizing that which transcends Existence (unqualified) to be absurd. How can you "experience" something which must by definition transcend all of existence which includes experiential reality (experiential reality is a sub-set of Reality unqualified). If you want to personalize/anthropomorphize your experience of the totality of Reality, then by all means do so, if that is what helps you appreciate or investigate it, but that isn't the same thing as personalizing something which must be transcend all things and defy all values including human attributions.

MTF

greetings , I read your reply but didn't have time to write .
I think our view point on the issue is the same , but talked about it differently.

except that I think that experiencing the trascendant existence is one of the unique abilities which are given to human ,that why religions exist, to explain the unqualified existence or reality in this experienced life, I believe that God who represents the trascendant existence to me and holds all the other existences we know , gave man the soul ,and all the required characteristics to know and realize God.

back to the point of the first question , we can use our knowledge about the qualified existences -cuz we can experience it- to prove the existence of transcendant reality.
this is one of the most important missions in this life .

 

[Me Myself]

My point is that God would be evident through Nature.

Only if you are a pantheist or a panentheist.

 

[Stevicus]

If I tell you there is a monkey in your closet, would you believe me if I didn't prove it?

If you told me there was a monkey in my closet, my first reaction would be to look inside my closet. Then I would come back to either confirm or deny your claim of there being a monkey in my closet.

It would be pointless to ask for evidence of something that I can easily check for myself (or something I should have known already).

 

[lunakilo]

If you told me there was a monkey in my closet, my first reaction would be to look inside my closet. Then I would come back to either confirm or deny your claim of there being a monkey in my closet.

It would be pointless to ask for evidence of something that I can easily check for myself (or something I should have known already).

But you are assuming you can find the closet and open it

If I told you there was a monkey in the closet and you either couldn't see the closet or couldn't open it, would you believe there was a monkey in it just because I say so?

If someone tells me that God exists but I can't see/find him why would I believe them just because they say so?

 

[Stevicus]

But you are assuming you can find the closet and open it

If I told you there was a monkey in the closet and you either couldn't see the closet or couldn't open it, would you believe there was a monkey in it just because I say so?

If someone tells me that God exists but I can't see/find him why would I believe them just because they say so?

I'm not sure why I wouldn't be able to find or open my own closet (unless I have too much junk in it, which wouldn't be too far from the truth).

But if you told me that you actually saw a monkey in my closet, I would most likely give you the benefit of the doubt until I could prove otherwise. After all, what possible reason would anyone have to lie about a monkey in my closet? I wouldn't just accept someone's say so, but I would ask them, "Why do you believe this to be true?" That way, it leaves the question more open-ended.

It's just like if a police detective says he has "probable cause" or "reason to believe," that may not constitute enough direct evidence to prove the case, but at least it's enough to keep investigating. That's how I would see it. To ask for proof or direct evidence at that early juncture is premature.

 

[lunakilo]

I'm not sure why I wouldn't be able to find or open my own closet (unless I have too much junk in it, which wouldn't be too far from the truth).

But if you told me that you actually saw a monkey in my closet, I would most likely give you the benefit of the doubt until I could prove otherwise. After all, what possible reason would anyone have to lie about a monkey in my closet? I wouldn't just accept someone's say so, but I would ask them, "Why do you believe this to be true?" That way, it leaves the question more open-ended.

It's just like if a police detective says he has "probable cause" or "reason to believe," that may not constitute enough direct evidence to prove the case, but at least it's enough to keep investigating. That's how I would see it. To ask for proof or direct evidence at that early juncture is premature.

I agree with you in that I would give me the benefit of the doubt, at least untill I either showed you the monkey in the closet (in which case I would believe there was a monkey in the closet) or until I came up with to many excuses why I couldn't show me the monky in the closet (in wich case I would probably decide that there was no monkey in the closet).

If someone says that he believes God exists, I would ask why he believes that.
If all he can come up with is "because he does, anyone with half a brain can see that" then I don't buy it.

That is like saying "there is a monkey in the closet. Any person can see that just by looking at the closet. It has the right size for a monkey after all, so of cause there is a monkey in there"

(These metaphors seem to be getting a little out of hand, but I hope you get my point )

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you told me there was a monkey in my closet, my first reaction would be to look inside my closet. Then I would come back to either confirm or deny your claim of there being a monkey in my closet.

It would be pointless to ask for evidence of something that I can easily check for myself (or something I should have known already).

Assuming that you couldn't check your closet yourself for whatever reason, would the question "how would she know what's in my closet, anyhow?" ever factor into your decision whether to believe her?

 

[Stevicus]

Assuming that you couldn't check your closet yourself for whatever reason, would the question "how would she know what's in my closet, anyhow?" ever factor into your decision whether to believe her?

Yes, exactly. That would be the first question I would ask.

 

[Stevicus]

I agree with you in that I would give me the benefit of the doubt, at least untill I either showed you the monkey in the closet (in which case I would believe there was a monkey in the closet) or until I came up with to many excuses why I couldn't show me the monky in the closet (in wich case I would probably decide that there was no monkey in the closet).

Yeah, I suppose so. I would still wonder why it would be impossible to just look inside the closet, so in that sense, this analogy tends to break down.

If someone says that he believes God exists, I would ask why he believes that.
If all he can come up with is "because he does, anyone with half a brain can see that" then I don't buy it.

That is like saying "there is a monkey in the closet. Any person can see that just by looking at the closet. It has the right size for a monkey after all, so of cause there is a monkey in there"

(These metaphors seem to be getting a little out of hand, but I hope you get my point )

Sure, I can see what you're saying. I tend to lean more towards agnosticism myself, since I honestly don't know. But I also try to leave some benefit of the doubt for the "wait-and-seers," too. I would consider the matter to be still under investigation and any conclusions one way or the other would be premature at this point.

In other words, until I can actually look inside of the closet in question, I can not honestly say "there is no monkey in the closet." Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, but until I can see for myself, I can't really say for certain.

 

[`mud]

Now that's pretty funny !!
If you all could see what that monkey is doing in that there closet !!!
:danana:
~
`mud

 

[Stevicus]

If you all could see what that monkey is doing in that there closet !!!

Is he doing the Funky Monkey?

 

[`mud]

with his bannana !!!

~
`mud

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

What's the story with people asking for proof and evidence?

I am a Nigerian Prince. Send me your bank details and security code so that I can send you 40 million dollars.

 

[lunakilo]

I am a Nigerian Prince. Send me your bank details and security code so that I can send you 40 million dollars.

Cool!

Such a shame my bank just defaulted, but I guess you have my bank details now

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Cool!

Such a shame my bank just defaulted, but I guess you have my bank details now

Thanks for having faith in me!