Why are the stories of Jesus and Horus so similar?

[Tyr]

Both the stories of these religious figures are almost exactly the same. Why is this?

 

[Cypress]

Because when Christianity took shape pagan traditions were incorporated?

 

[Willamena]

My uninformed opinion is that it is because of oral tradition and the mixing of populations. Motifs migrate from culture to culture.

 

[fallingblood]

Because they aren't. If you actually do the research, you will see that Jesus and Horus have very little in common. Actually, you can find just as much in common with Augustus, an emperor of Rome, to Jesus, as you can find with Horus to Jesus.

The problem is that some people have done some very faulty research, and others have continued with it and built upon faulty research.

 

[kejos]

Both the stories of these religious figures are almost exactly the same. Why is this?

What's puzzling, then, is why there are so many followers of Horus, and so few followers of Jesus.

 

[idea]

Because Adam and Eve - the first people on Earth - were taught about Jesus, and they taught their kids, and their kids taught their kids.... some of the kids remembered the story exactly, others did not.

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses5:4 - 12)
4 And Adam and Eve, his wife, acalled upon the name of the Lord, and they heard the voice of the Lord from the way toward the Garden of bEden, speaking unto them, and they saw him not; for they were shut out from his cpresence.
5 And he gave unto them commandments, that they should aworship the Lord their God, and should offer the bfirstlings of their cflocks, for an offering unto the Lord. And Adam was dobedient unto the commandments of the Lord.
6 And after many days an aangel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer bsacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
7 And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a asimilitude of the bsacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of cgrace and dtruth.
8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the aname of the Son, and thou shalt brepent and ccall upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
9 And in that day the aHoly Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the bOnly Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast cfallen thou mayest be dredeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was afilled, and began to bprophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my ctransgression my deyes are opened, and in this life I shall have ejoy, and again in the fflesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had aseed, and never should have bknown good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
12 And Adam and aEve blessed the name of God, and they made all things bknown unto their sons and their daughters.

 

[Oberon]

Both the stories of these religious figures are almost exactly the same. Why is this?

They aren't. Now, perhaps I am totally off base, in which case I apologise, but did you come accross the similarities in the stories you are talking about on some website list or book that gave you a list? I'm guessing no. Can you produce any primary texts (not the gospels, obviously) in which the similarities between the gospels and Horus might be compared (to be clear, by primary sources I mean copies of ancient texts either in their original languages or in translations, not recent books, articles, etc).

 

[dogsgod]

Read about some similarities and non similarities here:


Luxor Inscription - Brunner's Gottkoenigs & the Nativity of Jesus: A Brief Communication


example:

Acharya S claims:

Inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph, the "Holy Ghost," impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis - the original "Madonna and Child." (from Hidden Mysteries--The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold; similar claims are made by Ken Humphreys: cf. Holy Family)
​

I know from previous research in my field that there is some truth here. For example, many Isis-with-baby-Horus statues were converted to use as Mary-with-baby-Jesus statues. But there is also some egregious error here. For example, the phrase "immaculate conception" refers to the birth of Mary, not Jesus, so Acharya is using the wrong terminology for what I think she means, which is the spiritual (asexual) conception of a Son of God. An "immaculate conception" could not have appeared in any Egyptian myth anyway, since that phrase refers to the fact that Mary was, unlike all other human beings, and hence by divine miracle, born without sin and kept clean of all sin, at least until she gave birth to Jesus, and this is a bizarre idea that entails a view of sin, history, and human nature utterly alien to Egyptian religion. The Luxor inscription also does not depict impregnation by a spirit, but involves very real sex (indeed, the narrative borders on soft-core porn), and the woman involved is the mythical Queen of Egypt in an archetypal sense, not Isis per se. Acharya also gets the story fairly garbled, as I shall make clear shortly. Richard Carrier

 

[Oberon]

Acharya S claims:

An author with no expertise.

Inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph, the "Holy Ghost," impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis - the original "Madonna and Child." (from Hidden Mysteries--The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold; similar claims are made by Ken Humphreys: cf. Holy Family)

The problem here is that these are images being interpreted in light of what the viewer wants to find. It is akin to saying Osiris was "baptized" in the nile. The fact that his body parts were strewn in the nile in some versions of the myth doesn't equate to baptism. Images are even more problematic.

I know from previous research in my field that there is some truth here. For example, many Isis-with-baby-Horus statues were converted to use as Mary-with-baby-Jesus statues.

Carrier (who at the time he wrote this had not yet received his doctorate) is correct here. And the similarities do not stop there. From fairly early on, Christians drew on pagan philosophy in building their theology, and on pagan iconography and symbolism in creating artwork and so forth. The issue is whether the story of Jesus, as told in the gospels, bears any resemblence to the stories as told in the primary texts of the gods Jesus is compared to. The answer is no, other than some vary vague similarities, and certainly no in terms of whether the story of Jesus was created out of other myths.

Also, note in the Carrier article a reference to an article on the subject by the "eminent scholar" (Carrier's words) Bruce Metzger, one of the foremost scholars of the 20th century in early Christian and Biblical Studies. There simply isn't anything there.

 

[Tyr]

Ok

Jesus' and Horus' life events, etc.

Horus: Is Jesus' life story a copy? - Not Your Mama's Religion

The Parallels Between Jesus and Horus

These are only a few of many sites and lists.



Throw in a Christian response - Jesus & Horus Parallels - A Christian Response

Because Adam and Eve - the first people on Earth - were taught about Jesus, and they taught their kids, and their kids taught their kids.... some of the kids remembered the story exactly, others did not.

You serious about this? In saying this you are pretty much proving that the bible could just be a jumble of mixed stories handed down generation to generation therefore putting its validity into question.

 

[Oberon]

Ok

Jesus' and Horus' life events, etc.

Horus: Is Jesus' life story a copy? - Not Your Mama's Religion

The Parallels Between Jesus and Horus

These are only a few of many sites and lists.

That's what I thought. You got this information from secondary (and non-academic) sources. Unfortunately, (as is often the case when you are dealing with the internet or popular non-academic books), these lists are for the most part highly inaccurate, and when they are actually touching upon the truth, they are misleading in its presentation. I would suggest either reading about this issue in a book written by an expert (preferably published by an academic press), or at least finding the relevant primary texts and comparing them with the gospels to see how accurate the comparisons are.

 

[Tyr]

Perhaps instead being a smug little bugger you could provide anything to disprove those sites. ReligiousTolerance.org is well respected to my knowledge.

 

[fallingblood]

You are aware that the second link you provided disputes your claim? It shows why Jesus and Horus are not similar. The third link provides no evidence. The original poster even states that the information may not be completely true. The fourth link shows again, your idea being debunked. And the first link. Suggests that there is no connection. Provides very little actual evidence.

All you provided were a couple of lists with no real evidence backing them up. If the many lists and sites you are talking about are that good, then I see no reason why you would believe that idea. Especially when the links you posted even debunk your theory.

Again, the two stories are not very similar, and you have proven that yourself.

 

[fallingblood]

Perhaps instead being a smug little bugger you could provide anything to disprove those sites. ReligiousTolerance.org is well respected to my knowledge.

ReligiousTolerance is also quite biased to a point. They provided no evidence, never cited any works to support them, and are wholly erroneous in this case. They even suggest that themselves.

Also, for debunking, you've provided that. The second and fourth links that you provided debunk the theory enough.

 

[Tyr]

This is a trusted translation of the Book of the Dead.

The Book of the dead: the papyrus of ... - Google Books

 

[Tyr]

You are aware that the second link you provided disputes your claim? It shows why Jesus and Horus are not similar. The third link provides no evidence. The original poster even states that the information may not be completely true. The fourth link shows again, your idea being debunked. And the first link. Suggests that there is no connection. Provides very little actual evidence.

All you provided were a couple of lists with no real evidence backing them up. If the many lists and sites you are talking about are that good, then I see no reason why you would believe that idea. Especially when the links you posted even debunk your theory.

Again, the two stories are not very similar, and you have proven that yourself.

I was giving multiple views on the subject.

ReligiousTolerance is also quite biased to a point.

Have not heard this, how are they biased?


I don't believe anything, I am just stating places where I have gotten information. The whole reason for this thread was curiosity.

 

[Smoke]

Because they aren't. If you actually do the research, you will see that Jesus and Horus have very little in common. Actually, you can find just as much in common with Augustus, an emperor of Rome, to Jesus, as you can find with Horus to Jesus.

The problem is that some people have done some very faulty research, and others have continued with it and built upon faulty research.

This. There's just a whole lot of nonsense floating around out there, and a surprising amount of it is about Jesus.

 

[Oberon]

Perhaps instead being a smug little bugger you could provide anything to disprove those sites. ReligiousTolerance.org is well respected to my knowledge.

Certainly. First, it is noteworthy that these lists one finds everywhere are simply that: lists. Where are the texts from which these facts are taken? For the most part, they aren't mentioned because they don't exist, and when they do, the details are so garbled all the similarity is gone.

To that end, for a thorough survey of the primary texts about Horus and ancient egyptian religion (translated into english) the following volumes are great (they contain some scholarship on the texts, but are primarily just translations of the original texts):

Allen, J. P. (2005) Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts. Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature.

Simpson, W. K. (ed). (2003). Literature of Ancient Egypt : An Anthology of Stories, Instructions, Stelae, Autobiographies, and Poetry. New Haven: Yale University Press.

Strudwick, N. (2005). Texts from the Pyramid Age. Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature.

Foster, J. L. (2001) Ancient Egyptian Literature : An Anthology. Austin: University of Texas Press.

These will all provide you the primary texts you need to see that the resemblence in the lists is a modern construction which does not reflect history. Additionally, if you want sources which deal with the historical Jesus (and address or at least refer to this precise topic) or with the relationship between Christianity and other religions, some good ones are Die historische Jesu: ein Lehrbuch by Professors Theissen and Merz (I am pretty sure there is an English translation of this textbook), Hellenism in Antiquity by Professor G. W. Bowerstock, Pagans and Christians by Robin Lane Fox (this one is a classic and is in the library of virtually every classical or biblical studies dept.), From Jesus to Christianity by Professor L. Michael White, The Historical Jesus in Context (a book which consists of a series of papers by various experts in the field), and maybe the Oxford Handbook of Biblical Studies.

There are, of course, other sources, but for the most part this topic is ignored in the academic literature because nobody takes it seriously. This is because it is easy enough for scholars to go back and actually look at the primary texts, as opposed to relying on lists of comparisons.

 

[Madhuri]

Because they aren't. If you actually do the research, you will see that Jesus and Horus have very little in common. Actually, you can find just as much in common with Augustus, an emperor of Rome, to Jesus, as you can find with Horus to Jesus.

The problem is that some people have done some very faulty research, and others have continued with it and built upon faulty research.

I agree with this. Horus and Jesus have completely different descriptions. Unless Jesus happens to be God of war and hunting, is actually a falcon, concieved of the goddess of fertility and magic and a dismembered gold phallus

 

[Madhuri]

What's puzzling, then, is why there are so many followers of Horus, and so few followers of Jesus.

Are you being sarcastic?