Why are idols bad?

[DeviChaaya]

Namaste

I do not understand the vehemence with which some religions talk about idols. What, exactly, about idols is bad? As a Hindu I use a murti (what Abrahamics would call an idol) in my worship. This 'idol' is not God but it represents God and the many forms God takes. How is this bad?

No one I know worships the actual idol; we worship the force that the idol embodies. Why these harsh injunctions against anyone who does this? Why is it considered bad?

 

[Gharib]

I haven't studied this too deep from the Islamic perspective so I'm just gonna reply but mainly it's going to be my own personal opinion with slightly Islamic influences.

Don't you think that God is beyond being inside a mere idol?

Wouldn't it be more fitting to say that God is great and 'everywhere' (literally from a Hindu perspective) and just pray in the open without directing your prayer to a specific lifeless idol?

In Islam we have the Kaba towards which we face, however it doesn't represent God in any way. It's a sense of direction through which we are prevented from praying towards other things, like the graves of whom we consider to be good people, like that of our Prophet and thereby commit idolatry.

I probably shouldn't go into the Islamic belief all that much, but instead reply to you.

I have to be careful in my choice of words, forgive me if I say something rude. I don't want to offend you or anyone else.

 

[Breathe]

No one I know worships the actual idol; we worship the force that the idol embodies. Why these harsh injunctions against anyone who does this? Why is it considered bad?

I honestly I don't know. I think it comes down to the fact that they believe that to use an icon is to represent God, whom people believe we should not, and because they believe that the veneration of the icon is somehow worshipping it, or taking worship away from God.

I have no idea how people come to these conclusions, however.

 

[zenzero]

Friend DK,

Why these harsh injunctions against anyone who does this? Why is it considered bad?

Yes it is similar to what Jesus said:" Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
If they are conscious that everything in existence are all parts of that same consciousness including themselves who says such things cause they are deviated by SATAN [mind] to not follow the laws of the existence [garden of eden]

Love & rgds

 

[Pegg]

Namaste

I do not understand the vehemence with which some religions talk about idols. What, exactly, about idols is bad? As a Hindu I use a murti (what Abrahamics would call an idol) in my worship. This 'idol' is not God but it represents God and the many forms God takes. How is this bad?

No one I know worships the actual idol; we worship the force that the idol embodies. Why these harsh injunctions against anyone who does this? Why is it considered bad?

What if the image (created by human hands and mind) is not in harmony with any aspect or facet of the Almighty God & Creator?

Imagine if you sat to have your portrait painted and the end result looks nothing like you, imagine if it looked more like one of the pets you keep in a cage. Can you imagine being told that this is how the artist perceives you, this is what you look like to him and all the characteristics of the creature is said to be what you yourself are?

can you not imagine how insulting it may be to be wrongly presented into a creature which is nothing like you?

Now imagine if I asked you to draw a picture of the wind...or an image of gravity or of a black hole... how would you draw such a portrait? It would be very difficult because those things are invisible to human eyes and it is the same with God. We cannot draw pictures of him or liken him to anything on this earth because everything on this earth is physical and has form, but he does not.


The prophet Isaiah explains Gods view of the idols made in his name:
Isaiah 40:18 And to whom can YOU people liken God, and what likeness can YOU put alongside him? 19 The craftsman has cast a mere molten image, and with gold the metalworker overlays it,...25 “But to whom can YOU people liken me so that I should be made his equal?” says the Holy One. 26 “Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.

All the images of elephants, monkeys, rats...all those creatures are things created by God... it is insulting to bring God down to the level of one of these earthly creatures and proclaim that the creature itself is God. Rather we should look at the creatures as the wonders of Gods power and his marvelous wisdom. These creatures are not God and should never be presented as if they are.

 

[Madhuri]

Namaste

I do not understand the vehemence with which some religions talk about idols. What, exactly, about idols is bad? As a Hindu I use a murti (what Abrahamics would call an idol) in my worship. This 'idol' is not God but it represents God and the many forms God takes. How is this bad?

No one I know worships the actual idol; we worship the force that the idol embodies. Why these harsh injunctions against anyone who does this? Why is it considered bad?

I think the vindictiveness toward idol worship is linked with older pagans who the Christians and Muslims were in contact with. The worship and behaviour of Hindus is often mistakenly related with those pagans.

 

[lalita]

the Hindu idols take their descriptions from Vedas -- Veda means divine knowledge. I dont think rats at all --that one is made up. People invent all kinds of crazy things..Nor monkey either, but vanaar -- beings from the heavenly sphere with great mystic powers that has an appearance of monkey -- but they are superhuman. Hanuman descended from the Vanaar race, his father was the Wind God.

 

[Madhuri]

I think Pegg makes a good point. If you don't believe that God has form then it could seem silly to portray that God as having form.

It's different for us, Kala. We believe that God has forms and those forms are described in our very ancient scriptures by God and His associates.

 

[lalita]

His prowess is described in the Purana called Ramayan..The word is often translated as monkey --a pesky mischievous creature (which is highly offensive) Vanaars are superhumsn.

 

[Pegg]

the Hindu idols take their descriptions from Vedas -- Veda means divine knowledge. I dont think rats at all --that one is made up. People invent all kinds of crazy things..Nor monkey either, but vanaar -- beings from the heavenly sphere with great mystic powers that has an appearance of monkey -- but they are superhuman. Hanuman descended from the Vanaar race, his father was the Wind God.

i was watching an interesting program about India last week and there is actually a Rat temple with a rat goddess. The rats at the temple are provided food by prilgrims, they feed them and they even showed a devout man drinking milk from the same bowl with several rats which is considered a great honor.

I understand the reasoning that all creations represent God, i see the logic in it because God brings all these things to life.... but they are not him. The fact that they can die proves they are not him. They are his handiwork and we should rightly respect them for that reason...but to pray to them and sacrifice to them is going beyond what is reasonable or logical in my opinion. (and i say this respectfully because i actually really love indian culture and food and I think they are awesome for respecting Gods creatures to such a degree)

I just feel that it is not proper to direct ones adoration and worship to such creatures.

 

[DeviChaaya]

What if the image (created by human hands and mind) is not in harmony with any aspect or facet of the Almighty God & Creator?

Pegg, forgive me. I did not read the rest of your post because I found it somewhat offensive but let me simply respond to this first line. The murtis which we use in worship are created under strict guidelines which have been passed down through the ages beginning with the great Rishis, those great men and women who experienced God conciousness and then made a record of it so that we might not be in the dark.

Also, Pegg, having just found myself a liar (I went and read your post), God is in everything. Everything is part of God, God is both immanent and transcendent. There is also the belief, which as a Hindu I ascribe to, God takes physical form so that we deluded souls may find it easier to love Him/Her. Without a form to fix our love upon we cast about blindly, crying out 'where is God? Where is God?' because we have no foundation.

God takes form because God is all merciful and down not like to see Her children (all souls, not just humans, mind) clumsily fumbling about at some notion that She is unattainable, unknowable, etc. God is infinitely knowable if we are able to transcend ourselves and immerse ourselves in God Conciousness.

 

[Madhuri]

i was watching an interesting program about India last week and there is actually a Rat temple with a rat goddess. The rats at the temple are provided food by prilgrims, they feed them and they even showed a devout man drinking milk from the same bowl with several rats which is considered a great honor.

I understand the reasoning that all creations represent God, i see the logic in it because God brings all these things to life.... but they are not him. The fact that they can die proves they are not him. They are his handiwork and we should rightly respect them for that reason...but to pray to them and sacrifice to them is going beyond what is reasonable or logical in my opinion. (and i say this respectfully because i actually really love indian culture and food and I think they are awesome for respecting Gods creatures to such a degree)

I just feel that it is not proper to direct ones adoration and worship to such creatures.

Most Hindus do not worship animals. I don't even know how or why that sect/temple exists. It is not based in Veda at all. It is not a typical Hindu tradition, this is some random community emerging from God-knows what.

 

[Breathe]

Most Hindus do not worship animals. I don't even know how or why that sect/temple exists. It is not based in Veda at all. It is not a typical Hindu tradition, this is some random community emerging from God-knows what.

Most likely it's a traditional religion that merged with Traditional Indian Folk Hinduism, as opposed to Vedic or Vedāntic Hinduism?

I've seen this temple on TV before. It's not "Hindu" like what we know and love, at all.

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, forgive me. I did not read the rest of your post because I found it somewhat offensive but let me simply respond to this first line. The murtis which we use in worship are created under strict guidelines which have been passed down through the ages beginning with the great Rishis, those great men and women who experienced God conciousness and then made a record of it so that we might not be in the dark.

Also, Pegg, having just found myself a liar (I went and read your post), God is in everything. Everything is part of God, God is both immanent and transcendent. There is also the belief, which as a Hindu I ascribe to, God takes physical form so that we deluded souls may find it easier to love Him/Her. Without a form to fix our love upon we cast about blindly, crying out 'where is God? Where is God?' because we have no foundation.

God takes form because God is all merciful and down not like to see Her children (all souls, not just humans, mind) clumsily fumbling about at some notion that She is unattainable, unknowable, etc. God is infinitely knowable if we are able to transcend ourselves and immerse ourselves in God Conciousness.

im sorry if i offended you, but i guess the OP is a question that you probably find offensive to begin with. Im only giving the Abrahamic reason for why idols are forbidden in our scriptures.

Like i said, i can understand why idols are made and i even agree with you that aspects of God can be seen in the world around us and in his creations. Even our scriptures speak of Gods courage like that of a lion, his love like that of a woman for her child, Gods power like that of a raging bull and his wisdom like that of a far sighted eagle.

I guess the difference between us is that we dont view those creatures as a part of Gods person. They certainly reflect aspects of his personality...and this certainly teaches us much about him. But we would never elevate these creatures to the level of God nor view them as God.

 

[Pegg]

Most Hindus do not worship animals. I don't even know how or why that sect/temple exists. It is not based in Veda at all. It is not a typical Hindu tradition, this is some random community emerging from God-knows what.

from an outsiders perspective it looks like they are actually worshiping the images...especially considering they pray before them and chant to them.... christians do the same thing with their idols of saints and crosses and in my eyes that is a form of idolatry condemned in the scriptures.

so im not just being picky on hindus... i'll say the same thing to the christians.

 

[Madhuri]

I guess the difference between us is that we dont view those creatures as a part of Gods person. They certainly reflect aspects of his personality...and this certainly teaches us much about him. But we would never elevate these creatures to the level of God nor view them as God.

Pegg, I'm confused. Which creatures do Hindus elevate to God's level? I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly.

 

[Madhuri]

from an outsiders perspective it looks like they are actually worshiping the images...especially considering they pray before them and chant to them.... christians do the same thing with their idols of saints and crosses and in my eyes that is a form of idolatry condemned in the scriptures.

so im not just being picky on hindus... i'll say the same thing to the christians.

Hindus believe that God becomes present within the image for the sake of His devotee. The wood, the paint etc. are not God. What we believe is that God appears there is Spirit so that he can be worshiped directly.

 

[DeviChaaya]

im sorry if i offended you, but i guess the OP is a question that you probably find offensive to begin with. Im only giving the Abrahamic reason for why idols are forbidden in our scriptures.

Like i said, i can understand why idols are made and i even agree with you that aspects of God can be seen in the world around us and in his creations. Even our scriptures speak of Gods courage like that of a lion, his love like that of a woman for her child, Gods power like that of a raging bull and his wisdom like that of a far sighted eagle.

I guess the difference between us is that we dont view those creatures as a part of Gods person. They certainly reflect aspects of his personality...and this certainly teaches us much about him. But we would never elevate these creatures to the level of God nor view them as God.

Nah, I just gotta grow a thicker skin, that's all.

Now, what about the bible, Pegg? If I were draw on it as I draw on white paper, wouldn't that offend you? If I were to tear out pages and use them as toilet paper, wouldn't you find that highly offensive (not just because DON'T DO THAT TO BOOKS, BOOKS ARE IMPORTANT. Btw, I'd NEVER do that)? What if I were to use it to line my cat's litter tray or as mulch? You'd find that offensive, wouldn't you?

As a Christian don't you believe the bible is sacred but your god has said 'take nothing before me'. If you are to worship nothing before god wouldn't it make sense that the bible, while the word of god, is only important if you do not know it? Once you know it, once you have accepted god's words and know the teachings, what good is it then? But it still has an important place in your household, you still run your fingers over it like it is something precious?

The same goes for the koran, guys. Both of these books are worshipped. I've seen it. I see it every day, done by every day Muslims and Christians. Doesn't anyone ever stop to think that a book can take the place of one those hated idols any day?

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, I'm confused. Which creatures do Hindus elevate to God's level? I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly.

the elephant headed god springs to mind

 

[Madhuri]

the elephant headed god springs to mind

Aspects of God are worshiped as aspects. Not as God himself. Ganesha is an aspect, not actually God.

Interestingly, Ganesha is the son of Shiva. Shaivaits see Shiva as the Supreme Godhead. Ganesha is the son. So those who worship Ganesha are sort of like Christians who worship Jesus, the son.