Who was Joseph Smith to you?

[yuvgotmel]

Can you explain?

That would be another thread. If you like, you can start a One-on-One discussion for this topic.

 

[Bishka]

That would be another thread. If you like, you can start a One-on-One discussion for this topic.

That would be interesting, but perhaps an all-inclusive LDS thread and you? (If you dont' feel too ganged up on? I do know Katzpur and Soyleche and Jonny would love to respond and have a dialogue with someone?!)

 

[nutshell]

That would be another thread. If you like, you can start a One-on-One discussion for this topic.

Done. I put it in Comparative Religion


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=784315#post784315

 

[yuvgotmel]

That would be interesting, but perhaps an all-inclusive LDS thread and you? (If you dont' feel too ganged up on? I do know Katzpur and Soyleche and Jonny would love to respond and have a dialogue with someone?!)

Depends on the "rules" of the thread. I don't mind talking to multiple people though. But I do want to make it understood that I will be blunt.

 

[nutshell]

Depends on the "rules" of the thread. I don't mind talking to multiple people though. But I do want to make it understood that I will be blunt.

I appreciate bluntness.

 

[Bishka]

Depends on the "rules" of the thread. I don't mind talking to multiple people though. But I do want to make it understood that I will be blunt.

As most of us will be.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

i was the "No one" response, reason i said that about many of the "who is ____ yo you" questions is because i really did not have any clue of who they were, except for the very basic things which literally has no effect on me. i would have liked to meet the guy though, to know more about him

 

[yuvgotmel]

As most of us will be.

Great.. This is an excellent opportunity. If we can all remain mature and be very candid and honest, I think we'll end up liking each other a lot more.

 

[Bishka]

Great.. This is an excellent opportunity. If we can all remain mature and be very candid and honest, I think we'll end up liking each other a lot more.

Or hating each others guts.

 

[lilithu]

i was the "No one" response, reason i said that about many of the "who is ____ yo you" questions is because i really did not have any clue of who they were, except for the very basic things which literally has no effect on me. i would have liked to meet the guy though, to know more about him

I agree that "No one" is not necessarily a hostile remark. It simply means that the person in question, in this case Joseph Smith, is of no particular importance to the respondent, either positively or negatively.

 

[Bishka]

I agree that "No one" is not necessarily a hostile remark. It simply means that the person in question, in this case Joseph Smith, is of no particular importance to the respondent, either positively or negatively.

That's what I understood as well, I'm just including all the responses.

 

[RevOxley_501]

well since i am the one who said he was a kook, (and i apologize for any offense caused, i didnt originally intend to repost it here). i guess i will say why i said that.

I think he is a kook, because of some of the doctrines he tried to push. I think he was a Genius because of the success he had in pushing them. I also think he is crazy for betraying his masonic oaths, which is probably what got him killed


im not trying to pass judgement on the man, but from what i see, there are serious problems in the things he said and that his followers currently believe

im not gonna get into details because a debate isnt neccessary here, it is just opinion, please dont be offended by me

 

[lilithu]

I don't get when people say Joseph Smith was inspired and yet aren't LDS.

I'm guessing that inspiration is being used much more loosely then I imagine here.

Probably.

My guess is, and of course correct me if I'm wrong, that you view inspiration as the same as revelation. If I believed that God revealed the Truth to Joseph Smith, I would be Mormon. Just as if I believed that God revealed the Truth to Mohammed, I would be Muslim. Just as if I believed that God revealed the Truth to Bahá’u’lláh, I would be Baha'i. But I don't really believe in revelation in the Abrahamic sense to begin with. I believe that throughout history various people - many many people - have been inspired by God and they have interpreted their experience in the light of the circumstances and culture to which they are accustomed. Joseph Smith was inspired by God, as was Mohammed, as was Bahá’u’lláh, as was Jesus. (Sorry Victor, I realize that's blasphemous to you. ) As was Gandhi, as was Mother Theresa, etc, etc. But I don't believe that anyone has the objective Word of God, so I need not judge which one of these people are right or wrong, nor need I pick only one, nor need I follow all of them, to be frank.

 

[Scuba Pete]

You are right... it was Brigham Young. I apologize for the twist in my brain that put Smith as one of the conspirators. While there is no proof that Young actually ordered the massacre, he created an atmosphere of hatred towards outsiders with his vitriolic denouncements of "Federal Colonialism".

Nevertheless, I still can not buy into the story about the plates.

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read on RF. Joseph Smith was dead for years before the Mountain Meadows Massacre ever took place! :biglaugh:

 

[cardero]

I feel this paragraph competently sums up my opinion of what I have come to know of Joseph Smith.

“If anything can tend to encourage the supposition that Joseph Smith was a sincere enthusiast, maddened with religious frenzies, as many have been before and will be after him; and that he had a strong invincible faith in his own high pretensions and divine mission, it is the probability that, unless supported by such feelings, he would have renounced the unprofitable and ungrateful task, and sought refuge from persecution and misery in private life and honorable industry, But whether knave or lunatic, whether liar or a true man, it cannot be denied that he was one of the most extraordinary persons of his time, a man of rude genius, who accomplished a much greater work than he knew, and whose name whatever he may have been whilst living, will take its place among the notabilities of the world.”

The Mormons-Pg 165-Mackay

Personally he has a strange relationship to me. Not only is Joseph Smith my inspiration, he is also my rival.

 

[lunamoth]

I kind of agree with Lilithu in that I think JS was inspired, but not as revelation direct from God. Some people can be dramatically moved by the Holy Spirit and then they express that through their own filters, so we get stuff from the Holy Spirit mixed with the usual human bias and baggage. How do we tell the difference between the work of the Spirit and the human baggage? Always a tough question but my answer is 'by their fruits.' There is good fruit in the LDS religion, and we see a lot of this loving spirit from our LDS members here, but the same good fruit is found in simple traditional Christianity. Obviously I think that my own religion captures the essential good fruit best.

2c
luna

 

[cardero]

You are right... it was Brigham Young. I apologize for the twist in my brain that put Smith as one of the conspirators. While there is no proof that Young actually ordered the massacre, he created an atmosphere of hatred towards outsiders with his vitriolic denouncements of "Federal Colonialism".

Nevertheless, I still can not buy into the story about the plates.

From learning of the early history of the saints, one cannot help but feel that the death of Joseph Smith left a great void in the Mormon people that was very difficult to fill or recover from.

 

[Quiddity]

Probably.

My guess is, and of course correct me if I'm wrong, that you view inspiration as the same as revelation. If I believed that God revealed the Truth to Joseph Smith, I would be Mormon. Just as if I believed that God revealed the Truth to Mohammed, I would be Muslim. Just as if I believed that God revealed the Truth to Bahá’u’lláh, I would be Baha'i. But I don't really believe in revelation in the Abrahamic sense to begin with. I believe that throughout history various people - many many people - have been inspired by God and they have interpreted their experience in the light of the circumstances and culture to which they are accustomed. Joseph Smith was inspired by God, as was Mohammed, as was Bahá’u’lláh, as was Jesus. (Sorry Victor, I realize that's blasphemous to you. ) As was Gandhi, as was Mother Theresa, etc, etc. But I don't believe that anyone has the objective Word of God, so I need not judge which one of these people are right or wrong, nor need I pick only one, nor need I follow all of them, to be frank.

Well, we have a strict and loose view of both inspiration and revelation. Essentially that means we can believe certain others (like Mohammed, Baha u llah, Joseph Smith, etc.) are inspired in a very loose sense. We also have people within our own Church that are inspired and have had revelations in a very loose sense. The more strict definitions of inspiration and revelation are restricted to within the walls of our own ideologies. In laymen terms that just means we believe others have it right in certain areas, but only we have the totality of it (sorry Lilithu, I realize that's blasphemous to you.... ).

 

[jonny]

I have nothing but respect for Mormons, aka Latter Day Saints, but I cannot believe Smith's Golden Plate story. It appears to be delusional in nature. That he was complicit in the Mountain Meadow Massacre leads me to believe he was not founded in Jesus' teachings about love.

Hard for me to believe that Joseph Smith was complicit in the Mountain Meadow Massacre after he was dead (MMM was in the 1850s, JS died in the 1840s), but I won't stop you from believing it. FYI, Joseph Smith never saw Utah.

 

[Katzpur]

I have nothing but respect for Mormons, aka Latter Day Saints, but I cannot believe Smith's Golden Plate story.

That's understandable. Joseph Smith said that he wouldn't have believed it either, if it hadn't happened to him. Just out of curiosity, though, do you believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ? How is the idea that God could cause a Virgin to become pregnant with His Son easier to believe than the idea that God could send a heavenly messenger to direct someone to an ancient record testifying of His Son?