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Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it?
- Thread starter theMadJW
- Start date
icebuddy
Does the devil lift Jesus up?
I have read John 1:1 that says Jesus is God or a god. is he a true God or a false God?
Jesus = Jehovah is salvation
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the Jehovah the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Jehovah of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
Who is his redeemer and whats his name?
in Love,
Tom
PS - Do you look to the Image of God and say, "Not God"?
search the scriptures
Member
why does jesus receive worship and not rebuke any of them? if i am a prophet of God and somone worships me, i will let them know they should only worship jehova...
why :
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense;
h433 = a deity or the deity: - God, god.
why is the same word for God used in gen 1:1 the same as describing mutiple gods, or idols....? ex:
Deu 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
Deu 6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
due 6:4 hear Isareal: Jehova elohim one jehova
elohim = Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense;
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
why :
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense;
h433 = a deity or the deity: - God, god.
why is the same word for God used in gen 1:1 the same as describing mutiple gods, or idols....? ex:
Deu 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
Deu 6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
due 6:4 hear Isareal: Jehova elohim one jehova
elohim = Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense;
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
abysslightdarkness
Member
hi Greetings
Compliments of the day.
Hi 'search the scriptures'
the reason why the plural in Elohim had its history see below the brief info about YHWH and other gods. the fact that during around 1500 BC YHWH was noot the only god the tribes men worshipped there many other gods their names are still the bible. please do some research thanks yourself its more fuller picture.
Firstly ,We need to recognize that in the archaeology find in 1929 that before the Exile Yahweh was not worship alone ,there were other Canaanite gods like the goddess Anath ,Eshem & Herem to name a few , whether you like it or not that is a fact attested by a number of ancient artifacts & records. They were all worshipped together at that time. In Jer 44:15-28 showed that there were other gods in which they prayed to ,only that there were others who were prejudice against them also see Ez 8:14-16. Not until the Exile , the jews obviously did not see anything wrong in the other gods worship.
During the excavation of the archaeologists of the Palestine they came across the name Egeliah (bull-calf Yah) of Samaria, they dung up many other gods like the Astarte.
Its very obvious that Yahweh was only one of the popular gods they worship till the Exile
The name Egeliah (Bull-Calf Yah) . The Bull caves se up at Dan and Bethel by Jeroboam I is supported by the potsherd from Samaria marked Egaliag(Bull-Calf Yah)
In another words ,yahweh was personified by a bull-calf or young bull & those bulls are amount the common images in the Temple of Solomon. they had also some solar association too.
Fact is that in ancient Judah the name YHWH was Elephantine-ly written as YHW or Yahu. In Israel it is found written as YH read as Yo/Yah.
in another words in 1Kg 12:26-33those golden calves or young bulls were the representation of as aspect of Yahweh.
we can also notice to the spelling of great names to end with 'Yah' or 'Yahu' like Judah and the last king of israel titled 'the servant of Hoshea or Yahweh' ,king named as 'Abdiyo /Abadyahu' or 'Obadiah'.
therefore Yah is actually represented as a bull-calf & god of Israel was never solely worshipped,
however , Yah was worshipped outside israel like the inscription by Sagon II Of Assyrian (720BC) that he had captured the King of Hammath Ya-u-bi'di which means 'god Yah is my help'.
in Egypt there a list of ancient places of Edom which was a place of origin of worship of yahweh and Edom situated in the south of Israel dating (1417-1379 BC) had listed the name YHW (Yah-wi)
finally in 4th century BC there is a coin depicts an inscription of YHW plus a breaded man holding a hawk as we can see at that time the god depicted in human forms just like the greek gods.
Yahweh's worshipped had its orgastic aspects is not only tie to the Canaanite paganism. Yahweh is refer as El in the bible too. El means god or can also mean any specific deity. El was used by Melchizedek, the Canaanite priest-king of Salem. El was the sky god ,the creator and the gray-breaded patriarch of the Canaanite gods. El was also refer as 'Bull-El' in many ancient Canaanite texts. Therefore Bull-calf Yah = Bull-El > also there are many indications that is an variant of Baal who was also associated with bulls.
We need to accept the fact that in many ancient hebrew manuscripts like the Tanak don't include vowels on the hebrew letters thats why the romanized letters of god is YHWH ,the Tetragrammaton ,the sacred & unspeakable name of god. So when they compiled the Masoretic Text(MT) they wrote the vowel points of Adonai(my LORD) from YHWH But you see LORD in the bible is actually YHWH. but those christian translators of the MT misread the meaning of this and inserted the Adonai into YHWH which became Ya Ho WaiH or Je-ho-vah.
In fact ,during Abraham times they refer god as 'my lord' which is 'adonai' in Hebrew
YHWH is pronounced as Yahweh if the hebrew vowels are included. you only just named the letters of YHWH i quote "YHWH [Lod,He,Vau,He]".
The concept of Yahweh before the Exile is that there were many gods rivalries and Yahweh at that time was not the universal god they worshipped ,he was at most a very tribal god. Many at that time did not see Yahweh as having power outside Israel and they were most certainly not monotheistic. Yahweh was a special tribal god of Israel and Judah. There indications of the belief that Yahweh could only be effectively worshipped on Israel or Judah soil.see 2Kg 5 :17 Naaman asks that he allowed take 2 mule-loads of earth back to Syria so he could burnt offering to Yahweh.
The concept of henotheism is clear here see 2kg 3:4-27
As to how Yahweh became the more popular & universal than other gods ,there is a whole history behind it if you wanna know more you can do your own research for now.
warmest regards
thanks for reading.
Compliments of the day.
Hi 'search the scriptures'
the reason why the plural in Elohim had its history see below the brief info about YHWH and other gods. the fact that during around 1500 BC YHWH was noot the only god the tribes men worshipped there many other gods their names are still the bible. please do some research thanks yourself its more fuller picture.
Firstly ,We need to recognize that in the archaeology find in 1929 that before the Exile Yahweh was not worship alone ,there were other Canaanite gods like the goddess Anath ,Eshem & Herem to name a few , whether you like it or not that is a fact attested by a number of ancient artifacts & records. They were all worshipped together at that time. In Jer 44:15-28 showed that there were other gods in which they prayed to ,only that there were others who were prejudice against them also see Ez 8:14-16. Not until the Exile , the jews obviously did not see anything wrong in the other gods worship.
During the excavation of the archaeologists of the Palestine they came across the name Egeliah (bull-calf Yah) of Samaria, they dung up many other gods like the Astarte.
Its very obvious that Yahweh was only one of the popular gods they worship till the Exile
The name Egeliah (Bull-Calf Yah) . The Bull caves se up at Dan and Bethel by Jeroboam I is supported by the potsherd from Samaria marked Egaliag(Bull-Calf Yah)
In another words ,yahweh was personified by a bull-calf or young bull & those bulls are amount the common images in the Temple of Solomon. they had also some solar association too.
Fact is that in ancient Judah the name YHWH was Elephantine-ly written as YHW or Yahu. In Israel it is found written as YH read as Yo/Yah.
in another words in 1Kg 12:26-33those golden calves or young bulls were the representation of as aspect of Yahweh.
we can also notice to the spelling of great names to end with 'Yah' or 'Yahu' like Judah and the last king of israel titled 'the servant of Hoshea or Yahweh' ,king named as 'Abdiyo /Abadyahu' or 'Obadiah'.
therefore Yah is actually represented as a bull-calf & god of Israel was never solely worshipped,
however , Yah was worshipped outside israel like the inscription by Sagon II Of Assyrian (720BC) that he had captured the King of Hammath Ya-u-bi'di which means 'god Yah is my help'.
in Egypt there a list of ancient places of Edom which was a place of origin of worship of yahweh and Edom situated in the south of Israel dating (1417-1379 BC) had listed the name YHW (Yah-wi)
finally in 4th century BC there is a coin depicts an inscription of YHW plus a breaded man holding a hawk as we can see at that time the god depicted in human forms just like the greek gods.
Yahweh's worshipped had its orgastic aspects is not only tie to the Canaanite paganism. Yahweh is refer as El in the bible too. El means god or can also mean any specific deity. El was used by Melchizedek, the Canaanite priest-king of Salem. El was the sky god ,the creator and the gray-breaded patriarch of the Canaanite gods. El was also refer as 'Bull-El' in many ancient Canaanite texts. Therefore Bull-calf Yah = Bull-El > also there are many indications that is an variant of Baal who was also associated with bulls.
We need to accept the fact that in many ancient hebrew manuscripts like the Tanak don't include vowels on the hebrew letters thats why the romanized letters of god is YHWH ,the Tetragrammaton ,the sacred & unspeakable name of god. So when they compiled the Masoretic Text(MT) they wrote the vowel points of Adonai(my LORD) from YHWH But you see LORD in the bible is actually YHWH. but those christian translators of the MT misread the meaning of this and inserted the Adonai into YHWH which became Ya Ho WaiH or Je-ho-vah.
In fact ,during Abraham times they refer god as 'my lord' which is 'adonai' in Hebrew
YHWH is pronounced as Yahweh if the hebrew vowels are included. you only just named the letters of YHWH i quote "YHWH [Lod,He,Vau,He]".
The concept of Yahweh before the Exile is that there were many gods rivalries and Yahweh at that time was not the universal god they worshipped ,he was at most a very tribal god. Many at that time did not see Yahweh as having power outside Israel and they were most certainly not monotheistic. Yahweh was a special tribal god of Israel and Judah. There indications of the belief that Yahweh could only be effectively worshipped on Israel or Judah soil.see 2Kg 5 :17 Naaman asks that he allowed take 2 mule-loads of earth back to Syria so he could burnt offering to Yahweh.
The concept of henotheism is clear here see 2kg 3:4-27
As to how Yahweh became the more popular & universal than other gods ,there is a whole history behind it if you wanna know more you can do your own research for now.
warmest regards
thanks for reading.
theMadJW
Member
"why does jesus receive worship and not rebuke any of them? "
The answer is in the meaning of the word.
To worship (a term used frequently in England, where the term originated) is simply to show the highest honor; thus people worship money, celebs, entertainers, etc.
The One Jesus said was the ONLY true God has told the angels to show him such honor (worship, obeisance)- so it would CERTAINLY apply to us, to whom he has been made (by God) the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords!
The answer is in the meaning of the word.
To worship (a term used frequently in England, where the term originated) is simply to show the highest honor; thus people worship money, celebs, entertainers, etc.
The One Jesus said was the ONLY true God has told the angels to show him such honor (worship, obeisance)- so it would CERTAINLY apply to us, to whom he has been made (by God) the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords!
search the scriptures
Member
ok. so this is how it is :
hear israel YHWH our YHWH is one YHWH would be due 6:4?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
if jesus is not god, he is not good.... jesus was perfect.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
hear israel YHWH our YHWH is one YHWH would be due 6:4?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
if jesus is not god, he is not good.... jesus was perfect.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Yeah, unless the Father is not Jehovah.
Here is an example which should clear up your confusion regarding the pure worship of Jesus Christ in the Book of Revelation
και παν κτισμα ο εντωουρανω και επιτηςγης καιυποκατω τηςγης καιεπι της θαλασσης [εστιν] καιτα εν αυτοις πανταηκουσα λεγοντας τωκαθημενω επι τουθρονου και τω αρνιωη ευλογια καιη τιμηκαι η δοξακαι το κρατοςεις τουςαιωνας των αιωνωνκαι τα τεσσαρα ζωα ελεγον αμην και οι πρεσβυτεροι επεσαν και προσεκυνησαν
kaipasktismahosenhoouranoskaiepihogekaihupokatohogekaiepihothalassakaihoenautospasakouolegohokathemaiepihothronoskaihoarnionhoeulogiakaihotimekaihodoxakaihokratoseishoaionhoaionkaihotessareszoonlegoamenandhopresbuterospiptokaiproskuneo
And every creature in Heaven, and upon the earth, and underneath the earth, and upon the sea, and the things in all of them, I heard saying: To Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the power forever and ever. And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshiped. (Rev 5.13 14)
Observe that a distinction is made between the one sitting on the Throne and the Lamb, and yet both entities are treated as one, as they both receive:
- Singular blessing eulogia
- Singular honor time
- Singular glory doxa (i.e. worship)
- Singular power kratos
Jesus is God according to your New World Translation.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
In Psalms 45:11 the meaning of the word used there means simply to (worship). Can we then assume the king being mentioned there is to be viewed as God as well?....Nope.
The word used throughout the NT in reference is (proskuneo) and it means;
Strong's Lexicon
proskuneo pros-koo-neh'-o (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship.
The word theyve translated as worship is proskuneo in the Greek manuscript, more a show of respect and greeting like catholics kissing the popes ring or kneeling down before him. Is the pope..."God"...?
The thing is...the word worship is used throughout the OT and a lot of it has nothing to do with "God"
Some may confuse "praise" for "worship". Even so...(praise), mentioned in the NT, was strictly for God and no one else. I could find no where in your scripture where it says "Yeshua was praised" or "they praised Yeshua"....
They simply showed Yeshua (adoration)...Interesting enough...this is the same word mentioned when it is translated into latin (adoraverunt). Adoration does not necessarily mean worship or praise as we view it today.
The Jews will tell you that the meaning of the word depends on the context in which it is being used. Just because we see it as a plural does not meant that it is to be rendered that way. Think of when the Queen says "We are not amused"..Well, she's speaking of herself and no one else.
The biblical Yeshua displays countless times throughout your 4 gospels that he didn't consider himself "God". It wasn't something he taught nor was it something his followers or family members thought of him. He explicitly, not "implicitly", said he had a god. Such a declaration should be enough to dispel any notion he himself was "God"...considering he said he wasn't.....
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Well let's see if what you say is correct....If Yeshua is "God" then surely after the ascension "God" should not be viewed as two distinct entities. Yeshua should be in heaven and referred to as "God" but as we can see this is not the case. All of the heavenly creation saw "God" and Yeshua (The Lamb) to be totally separate. It's amazing how it keeps getting swept under the rug here.
Revelation 1:1-2
1 This is a revelation from Yeshua the Messiah, which God gave him concerning the events that will happen soon. An angel was sent to God's servant John so that John could share the revelation with God's other servants.
2 John faithfully reported the word of God and the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah--everything he saw.
Rev. 3:12
All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them.
The verses above are strictly related to Yeshua (The Lamb). The second one is where he explicitly informs John he has a god.
The verses below deal with "God" and as you can see the one sitting on the throne being praised is "God" and the one who steps forward takes the scroll from "God". Who is the one that steps forward? Yep, you guessed it...it was Yeshua (The Lamb). It is not logical that "God" would take something from himself that he already possessed. Additionally, "God's" creation ask... "Who is worthy of opening the seals".....Now you'll see that right before that question his creation praises him and tells him he's "worthy to receive glory, power and honor"....Now why would "God" be worthy of all of that but then be asked by his creation..who is worthy to open the seals? Remember now that the scroll is in "God's" possession. Surely if he's worthy of all that then he should be worthy of opening a mere seven seals on a scroll that he probably sealed himself.
Revelation 4:2 and 9-11
2 And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it!
9 Whenever the living beings give glory and honor and thanks to the one sitting on the throne, the one who lives forever and ever,
10 the twenty-four elders fall down and worship the one who lives forever and ever. And they lay their crowns before the throne and say,
11 "You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created everything, and it is for your pleasure that they exist and were created."
Now remember "God" in verse 4:11 above? "God" (IS) worthy so let's move a little forward;
Revelation 5:1-7
1 And I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one who was sitting on the throne. There was writing on the inside and the outside of the scroll, and it was sealed with seven seals.
Remember verse 4:2 above? "God" is sitting on the throne.
2 And I saw a strong angel, who shouted with a loud voice: "Who is worthy to break the seals on this scroll and unroll it?
Remember verse 4:11 above? "God" is worthy...so out of respect none of his creation would dare question his worthiness to open something that he had in his possession that he most likely sealed himself. Remember, he is " omnipotent/omniscient".
3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll and read it.
Surely John thought "God "was capable of accomplishing this task? The scroll was not for "God" to open but some one other than "God" who was worthy was to open the seals.
4 Then I wept because no one could be found who was worthy to open the scroll and read it.
"God" had the scroll in his hand. Surely there was no need of this if everyone knew he was worthy. Again, that's because he was entrusting some one else worthy enough to open the seals. Some one other than himself.
5 But one of the twenty-four elders said to me, "Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne, has conquered. He is worthy to open the scroll and break its seven seals."
As you can clearly see, a reference to some one else is mentioned worthy of opening the seals......not the one on the throne ("God").
Wait, wait....it gets better......;
6 I looked and I saw a Lamb that had been killed but was now standing between the throne and the four living beings and among the twenty-four elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God that are sent out into every part of the earth
7 He stepped forward and took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne.
Remember Rev. 4:2 above? "God" is the one the throne and in Rev. 5:6 "The Lamb" is the one who comes forward and takes the scroll from the hand of his god. Also note that (The Lamb) was not sitting on the throne. He was in the crowd with the rest of "God's" creation.
Now I'm not saying he never received any worship from those in heaven because your book says he did. That very chapter shows he's not "God" and it separates the two to the very end. Let's not forget the biblical Yeshua's explicit statement that he has a god (Rev. 3:12). Not only did he say it in that verse but he repeats it 4 times.
So I must state the "obvious" and repeat......Yeshua is not God.
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"The Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) is a technical term for the first day of the week--so named because Jesus rose from the dead on that day.
It was also the day on which Christians met (see Acts 20:7) and took up collections (see 1 Cor 16:2).
By Mosaic law, I assume you mean the Levitical ceremonial laws and not the Ten Commandments.
When the Saturday Sabbath ended, Christian assemblies worshipped on the first day of the week.
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You seem to not understand what the Biblical Trinity is, brother.
Father, Son and Spirit are shown to be separate, but each is simultaneously the one God.
They share the same deity.
The opening greeting in Revelation is from Father, Son, and Spirit.
Who's name...?
και ειδον και ιδου το αρνιονεστοςεπι τοορος σιων καιμετ αυτουεκατον τεσσερακοντα τεσσαρεςχιλιαδες εχουσαι τοονομα αυτουκαι το ονοματου πατρος αυτουγεγραμμενον επι των μετωπων αυτων
kai eido kai idou ho arnion histemi epi ho oros sion kai meta autos hekaton tessarakonta tessares chilias echo ho onoma autos kai ho onoma ho pater autos grapho epi ho metopon autos
Rev 14.1 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the Mount Zion! And with Him a hundred forty four thousand, having His name, and the name of His Father, written on their foreheads.
As was already shown to you, both Jesus' name and the name of the Father are written upon the Elect.
Rev 22 treats both names as one name.
Again...deity interchangability.
The Trinity.
We have to wonder why you decided to stop quoting scripture before this very next verse...
και οτε ελαβεν το βιβλιον τα τεσσαρα ζωα και οι εικοσι τεσσαρες πρεσβυτεροι επεσαν ενωπιον του αρνιου εχοντες εκαστος κιθαραν και φιαλας χρυσας γεμουσας θυμιαματων αι εισιν αι προσευχαι των αγιων
kai hote lambano ho biblion ho tessares zoon kai ho eikosi tessares presbuteros pipto enopion ho arnion echo hekastos kithara kai phiale chruseos gemo thumiama hos eisi ho proseuche ho hagios
Rev 5.8 And when He took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one having harps, and golden bowls full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints.
Clearly, you are not bothering to read through the text...for if you had, then you could not miss the fact that Jesus is proclaimed as God Almighty.
search the scriptures
Member
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
the =
ὁ, ἡ, τό
ho hē to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
Almighty =
παντοκράτωρ
pantokratōr
pan-tok-rat'-ore
From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling, that is, God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty, Omnipotent.
the =
ὁ, ἡ, τό
ho hē to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
Almighty =
παντοκράτωρ
pantokratōr
pan-tok-rat'-ore
From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling, that is, God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty, Omnipotent.
search the scriptures
Member
Exo 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
　
god :
H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense;
　
thy prophet -one word :
נביא
nâbı̂y'
naw-bee'
From H5012; a prophet or (generally) inspired man: - prophecy, that prophesy, prophet.
Exo 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
Exo 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
Exo 7:4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
Exo 7:5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.
Exo 7:6 And Moses and Aaron did as the LORD commanded them, so did they.
　
Exo 7:1 "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." (KJV translation)
[god made moses and aaron divinely(gods) inspired men(prophets), to tell pharoh the lord's message.] the message :
Exo 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
Exo 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
why? :
Exo 7:5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD
and... :
Exo 7:6 And Moses and Aaron did as the LORD commanded them, so did they.
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
You totally missed the point. The concept of trinity is Christian as well as with other pagan religions. The Jews did not nor do they currently view their god as a triune god. Moreover in none of the 4 gospel does the biblical Yeshua (Jesus) ever reveal he is "God" nor was it something he taught. I understand the scripture very well. I'm not a noobie at this. In all of what I quoted there can be no doubt that those in heaven viewed Yeshua as separate from his god. The biblical Yeshua "explicitly" informed his followers he was not "God" and no one, who followed him, thought he was. Revelation 3:12 is a perfect example. It's so plain and so clear but you've ignored the simplicity of it as well as his whole prayer to his god in the book of John.
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search the scriptures
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"The Jews did not nor do they currently view their god as a triune god."
if the bible is right the jews diddnt see jesus as their messiah...
" Moreover in none of the 4 gospel does the biblical Yeshua (Jesus) every reveal he is "God" nor was it something he taught."
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
"I understand the scripture very well. I'm not a noobie at this. In all of what I quoted there can be no doubt that those in heaven viewed Yeshua as separate from his god"
do you beleive scripture? it doesn't matter how long you have studied... you can read all your life and still not know the author. 3 seperate persons co equal, and co eternal. one in mind, will, and purose united/one, as the universal divine almighty strength/might or God ... the creator
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Please.... I missed nothing. I commend you for the highlights but if YOU continue reading those that said the Lamb was worthy of opening the seals continued to separate their god (the one on the throne whom they repeatedly said live forever and ever) from The Lamb. The book of Revelation, as cryptic as it is, is not a hard to read book when trying to understand who's who.
Case in point;
Rev. 5:13
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica] And then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They also sang: "Blessing and honor and glory and power belong to the one sitting on the throne and to the Lamb forever and ever."[/FONT]
This is complete separation as to whom is being worshiped. It's not that they didn't worship The Lamb it's that they paid homage to BOTH "God" (the one sitting on the throne) "AND" The Lamb (Yeshua). No trinity is shown or even implied in Revelation. It is, however, being interpreted by the reader (You)....
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
It's not the point whether they believed he was the "Messiah"...The point is..they did not and do not believe their god to be a triune god.
I've only been dealing with the books where the words of the biblical Yeshua can be found and not the opinions of Paul who never met him.
Then any authoritative commentary on biblical scripture is futile correct? The many scholars of various religious backgrounds are void because they don't share your faith and accept it all on belief correct? NO.....One does not have to be a "believer" to understand the bible. No....There are plenty of non Christian scholars as well as non Muslim scholars who are qualified to give commentary on scripture.
The only thing your bible reveals about Yeshua and his god is that he explicitly said he has a god and that he and his god were one in purpose as he prayed to his god that his followers would also be one in purpose with them.